Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

Which works well, while we have iron ore to sell and we get the ongoing high returns for it to support our lifestyle.
Which goes back to the point I was making.

We’ll see have thousands of years of Iron Ore left, But even if we started to run out of Iron Ore, then we would just direct our labour and capital to the next industry on the list where it can be used effectively.

The world changes, in 100 years robots might be doing all the labour and China might not have the advantages it does today, who knows, but at every stage we should direct labour and capital where it makes us the most money.

 

[divs4ever]

If tariffs just make the better options more expensive so that worse local options can compete, it’s not a great thing though.

Tesla has shown it is possible for the west to create new companies from nothing.

in my opinion , tariffs are only better because they protect ( or maybe even create ) local jobs and manufacturing

prices will still trend upwards as inefficiently made goods will make it to the market and be profitable

the other party will just tax more widely on shrinking labour/manufacturing base

i doubt either major candidate has the ability to significantly reduce government spending , so the outcome will be more taxes , in one form or another

 

[divs4ever]

We’ll see have thousands of years of Iron Ore left, But even if we started to run out of Iron Ore, then we would just direct our labour and capital to the next industry on the list where it can be used effectively.

The world changes, in 100 years robots might be doing all the labour and China might not have the advantages it does today, who knows, but at every stage we should direct labour and capital where it makes us the most money.

China is liable to have even more advantages when moving to automation/robots China focuses less on profit maximization , and more on raw output .. but the big question is when the global population is shrinking in developed nations .. who is going to buy and who will have a job to pay all the taxes bloated governments need to fund their expenditure

 

[sptrawler]

Yep, and made of iron ore from Australia probably, it’s a global economy.

Mine came from California, and they could keep shipping them from there, or from Germany, but of course we are closer to China. So it makes sense to ship it from there.

Most of the worlds population is in Asia, so it makes sense most of the worlds production will be there, and they are also our biggest export market. Mercantilism is dead.

So going back to my point, you think iron ore will support our lifestyle, ad infinitum?

 

[divs4ever]

So going back to my point, you think iron ore will support our lifestyle, ad infinitum?

unless i am truly immortal , iron will be mined for the entirety of my lifetime

BTW iron is perfectly recyclable , so depending on how desperate you are to extract it , it will be available , but maybe not in the desired quantities

 

[sptrawler]

unless i am truly immortal , iron will be mined for the entirety of my lifetime

Yes the politicians are working on that theory as well, as that is the most important thing to people these days. Lol

 

[JohnDe]

Received an email from a mate at a ford dealership, he sent to everyone on his contact list. The sales team are very excited, but I'm not sure about why with such a small battery.

Good afternoon, I've had many customers asking about the upcoming introduction of Ranger PHEV into Australia and while no launch date has been set, I'll pass on a few details Ford have published. If you have any questions please reach out.​

 

[divs4ever]

Received an email from a mate at a ford dealership, he sent to everyone on his contact list. The sales team are very excited, but I'm not sure about why with such a small battery.

Good afternoon, I've had many customers asking about the upcoming introduction of Ranger PHEV into Australia and while no launch date has been set, I'll pass on a few details Ford have published. If you have any questions please reach out.​

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sounds like a dream , but will it be a nightmare

i wonder it they are using capacitors in conjunction with battery storage

a 2.3 litre engine and 10 speed transmission makes it sound like driving a truck ( seemingly always changing gears )

 

[mullokintyre]

sounds like a dream , but will it be a nightmare

i wonder it they are using capacitors in conjunction with battery storage

a 2.3 litre engine and 10 speed transmission makes it sound like driving a truck ( seemingly always changing gears )

With a ten speed auto, the idea is that the engine management system is able to keep the engine in the ideal torque band.
And witha 2.3 litre petrol engine hauling around a 2.5 tonne pickup you are going to need every bit of torque you can muster.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

in my opinion , tariffs are only better because they protect ( or maybe even create ) local jobs and manufacturing

prices will still trend upwards as inefficiently made goods will make it to the market and be profitable

the other party will just tax more widely on shrinking labour/manufacturing base

i doubt either major candidate has the ability to significantly reduce government spending , so the outcome will be more taxes , in one form or another

Tariffs are a tax on consumers, that’s used to subsidise local industry, So consumers pay more, while the labour and capital is directed away from more productive industries and into weaker less competitive ones.

 

[Value Collector]

China is liable to have even more advantages when moving to automation/robots China focuses less on profit maximization , and more on raw output .. but the big question is when the global population is shrinking in developed nations .. who is going to buy and who will have a job to pay all the taxes bloated governments need to fund their expenditure

A shrinking population isn’t a problem, especially if more and more of the labour is done by robots and other automation.

And “who is going to buy?” Well the people that a left. The productive means will produce products and services, they will be distributed, the labour and capital will be paid and consume the output, taxes will be paid and spent also.

 

[Value Collector]

So going back to my point, you think iron ore will support our lifestyle, ad infinitum?

No, I think Iron ore mining is just one awesome place to deploy our labour and capital at the moment and into the distant future, and if it becomes less attractive the invisible hand of the market will naturally redeploy labour and capital elsewhere to the next best thing.

No need to panic, these things take care of themselves, as long as we have investors willing to invest

 

[divs4ever]

Tariffs are a tax on consumers, that’s used to subsidise local industry, So consumers pay more, while the labour and capital is directed away from more productive industries and into weaker less competitive ones.

yes but it is fractionally better than the other policy in the short-mid term

ideally the US would have kept the debt manageable and let competitive tax structures do the attracting of investment capital , but they are nowhere near that , not even if you ignore the unfunded liabilities

and neither major candidate will slash government expenditure ( so the sensible option is off the table )

 

[JohnDe]

sounds like a dream , but will it be a nightmare

i wonder it they are using capacitors in conjunction with battery storage

a 2.3 litre engine and 10 speed transmission makes it sound like driving a truck ( seemingly always changing gears )

My cousin is the workshop foreman at a large dealership, and I get some good info from him. The 10 speed auto had some issue early on but are now very reliable. The software ensures that not all 10 gears are in use for normal diving, selecting different gears for takeoff depending on throttle position, and also selecting the required gear when changing up. So, at light throttle the trans might use 2nd or 3rd gear to take off, then change into 3rd or 4th gear and only getting to an upper gear that is best for fuel economy and engine torque range. So in the city there may only be 3 gear changes under light throttle. But under heavy throttle or high torque demand the gear selection will start in 1st and use every gear required.

The engine has been around for a while now, most if not all issues have been sorted. It has a good torque band and with he 10 speed transmission it is comparable to the previous version diesel engine 6 speed auto Ranger.

With the EV motor the Ranger, technically, should be a decent work horse. However, I feel that the battery size is a limiter, and my old fashion view still rings true for me - There is no replacement for displacement.

Word of warning; stay away from the Bi-Turb 4-cylinder engines using the wet timing belt system. They use a timing belt that is in the oil system, it is supposed to offer improved fuel efficiency and belt life. They originally came with a 260,000km replacement recommendation, now dropped to 160,000km. However, some are failing at about 7,000km to 100,000km. And when the belt fails the engine is trashed.

 

[sptrawler]

No, I think Iron ore mining is just one awesome place to deploy our labour and capital at the moment and into the distant future, and if it becomes less attractive the invisible hand of the market will naturally redeploy labour and capital elsewhere to the next best thing.

No need to panic, these things take care of themselves, as long as we have investors willing to invest

The problem is, those of us that have kids and grandkids, tend to worry about the transition period.
If I didn't have 4 kids and 8 grandkids, I wouldn't give a rats ar$e either, we have more than enough to see us through, because we grew up in the times we did and had the advantage of being able to ride the growth.
So when I reflect I wonder where the growth is going to come from, to enable my kids and grandkids can enjoy the same lifestyle and I'm struggling to see it ATM.
If I was in your shoes, I'm sure I would have your outlook, but I'm not and that's why we have differing views.
Yet both drive EV's. Lol For differing reasons.

 

[Value Collector]

The problem is, those of us that have kids and grandkids, tend to worry about the transition period.
If I didn't have 4 kids and 8 grandkids, I wouldn't give a rats ar$e either, we have more than enough to see us through, because we grew up in the times we did and had the advantage of being able to ride the growth.
So when I reflect I wonder where the growth is going to come from, to enable my kids and grandkids can enjoy the same lifestyle and I'm struggling to see it ATM.
If I was in your shoes, I'm sure I would have your outlook, but I'm not and that's why we have differing views.
Yet both drive EV's. Lol For differing reasons.

I wouldn't worry to much, there are plenty of industries for your grand children to put their labour and capital into and thats all that really matters, the determining factor on whether they thrive or dive is going to be their own actions and attitudes, not any macro stuff. Iron ore is here to stay, that is for sure, it might grow it might shrink, its price might be higher some times its price might be lower sometimes, but there is also 1000 other industries that will be growing or shrinking at any time too.

My advice to younger folks, is simply find work that you enjoy, with people you like, and spend less than you earn, and invest. Do that and you will do well and enjoy life.

-----------------------------------

On the topic of EV's, they will help Australia by increasing jobs in our local energy industry, rather than sending money offshore to the Middle East etc creating jobs there.

 

[qldfrog]

Received an email from a mate at a ford dealership, he sent to everyone on his contact list. The sales team are very excited, but I'm not sure about why with such a small battery.

Good afternoon, I've had many customers asking about the upcoming introduction of Ranger PHEV into Australia and while no launch date has been set, I'll pass on a few details Ford have published. If you have any questions please reach out.​

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I like the Phev concept and would look at it if i were to change my diesel ute but battery is so small: i need i think around 50km real range otherwise why bother,
And then an inefficient small petrol engine instead of diesel so dead at 200k km?
Byd shark will probably cost half?

 

[Value Collector]

I like the Phev concept and would look at it if i were to change my diesel ute but battery is so small: i need i think around 50km real range otherwise why bother,
And then an inefficient small petrol engine instead of diesel so dead at 200k km?
Byd shark will probably cost half?

Some hybrids are basically fully electric vehicles just with a smaller battery, and the petrol motor just acts as a generator that kicks in to keep the battery level above 10% until you can charge, and the petrol motor runs at its most efficient RPM and load etc, so it’s very efficient use of the liquid fuel, much better trying to drive the car directly with gear boxes and drive shafts etc.

 

[JohnDe]

Another example of Australia's high and outdated tax system.

Australia’s high-end electric car market was restrained by the 33 per cent tax on high-end cars and greater competition could be unlocked if the federal government removed it, he said.​

​

“The luxury car tax that applies to electric vehicles doesn’t make sense,” Maynard said.​

​

“It’s an archaic tax that was brought in to support a car industry that we no longer have and to see the abolishment of that would be a great step towards encouraging electric vehicle sales in the country.”​

Electric car crashes through Australian price barrier​

The cost of one new electric car model in Australia has dropped to below $31,000 for the first time.


The MG4 now cost less than $31,000. Photo: AAP

But industry experts say the fierce price battle is only playing out among cheaper and smaller electric cars, with Australian taxes reducing competition at the other end of the market.

MG lowered the price of electric vehicles in Australia again, cutting the price of its entry-level MG4 hatchback to $30,990 until the end of October.

The sum is $8000 lower than its recommended price in August and comes despite strong sales for the vehicle in Australia.

The price cut makes the MG4 Australia’s cheapest electric car, followed by the MG SZ EV ($34,990) that had a price reduction in August, and the GWM Ora hatchback that held the title after a price cut in April ($35,990).

MG Motor Australia chief commercial officer Giles Belcher said the lower price was designed to encourage motorists on the fence about buying an electric car to make the move.

“We know that people may have been considering an EV but potentially have held off due to the cost,” he said.

“(This) ensures all buyers who had been thinking of making the switch to an EV now can thanks to the lower entry point.”

The MG4 has been one of the top-selling electric hatchbacks in Australia in 2024, with more than 3387 sold until August, according to the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries.

By comparison, BYD has sold 1639 of its Dolphin hatchbacks and GWM has sold 781 Ora models.

Other companies to cut the price of electric vehicles in Australia this year have included Tesla, Lotus, Renault and Peugeot.

Polestar Australia managing director Scott Maynard said the electric car price war was limited to the mid and entry-level segments of the local automotive market.

“There’s a massive battle playing out in the sub-$70,000 bracket where so many brands, both existing and new, are clambering to dominate that segment,” he said.

Australia’s high-end electric car market was restrained by the 33 per cent tax on high-end cars and greater competition could be unlocked if the federal government removed it, he said.

“The luxury car tax that applies to electric vehicles doesn’t make sense,” Maynard said.

“It’s an archaic tax that was brought in to support a car industry that we no longer have and to see the abolishment of that would be a great step towards encouraging electric vehicle sales in the country.”

The luxury car tax also came under scrutiny at a recent Transition to Electric Vehicles inquiry hearing, which heard claims from the Australian Automotive Dealer Association that some manufacturers were reluctant to import high-end electric cars to Australia due to the tax.

 

[qldfrog]

Another example of Australia's high and outdated tax system.

Australia’s high-end electric car market was restrained by the 33 per cent tax on high-end cars and greater competition could be unlocked if the federal government removed it, he said.​

​

“The luxury car tax that applies to electric vehicles doesn’t make sense,” Maynard said.​

​

“It’s an archaic tax that was brought in to support a car industry that we no longer have and to see the abolishment of that would be a great step towards encouraging electric vehicle sales in the country.”​

I actually wonder how long it will take for our dimwits in charge to put a 50 % or 100% tarif on Chinese made EVs.
After all, if US and EU are doing it, why won't we..and look at the amount of extra taxes for NDIS and smoke ceremonies