Stock courses

[Trembling Hand]

Yes TH It's very upsetting. Keep telling yourself that. You made a difference.

@ Timmy - Not according to TH. All you need is a huge account and lots of practice. I might beg to differ to that statement and actually agree with you that some methodology, systems, risk management techniques, position sizing, self discipline and training (either self taught or with a mentor) might be handy, but who am I to argue eh?

Cheers

Sir O

What is this dude on.

A desk jockey has all the answers hey

Not only to why you should buy his course though its not working for him cuz his still jobbing away trying to shave other peoples money.

But what I'm about. This is why this place is full of it.

experts that cannot do it.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Would be an interesting comparison.

Trader A with a huge account and lots of practice

vs

Trader B with a 2 day course using a live trading account.

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

What is this dude on.

A desk jockey has all the answers hey

Not only to why you should buy his course though its not working for him cuz his still jobbing away trying to shave other peoples money.

But what I'm about. This is why this place is full of it.

experts that cannot do it.

Well TH in my not so humble opinion (hey that sounds familiar hint hint - tell me if I'm being too subtle). Perhaps I'm using humour to suggest you are full of it. Of course not everyone is as brilliant as you I am sure, and our motives behind running these courses have absolutely nothing to do with the financial well being of our clients and instead are designed to feather our own nests because we cannot "do it". No I get it - all us guys in the financial industry are evil sods who need to be tarred and feathered right? /sarcasm

Just because a a teaching course also needs to not hemorrhage cash flow from other areas of the business, does not make us greedy bastards. I might not have my gold toilet seat yet, but the lessons I teach others are the same ones I've used for financial stability.

Try not to be too prejudiced towards people within the industry in future TH. We're not all Wolves of Wall street you know?

Cheers

Sir O

 

[warezwana]

Would be an interesting comparison.

Trader A with a huge account and lots of practice

vs

Trader B with a 2 day course using a live trading account.

I'd like to know that outcome but my money is on the huge account/virtual and practice....

Just because a a teaching course also needs to not hemorrhage cash flow from other areas of the business, does not make us greedy bastards. I might not have my gold toilet seat yet, but the lessons I teach others are the same ones I've used for financial stability.

Try not to be too prejudiced towards people within the industry in future TH. We're not all Wolves of Wall street you know?

Cheers

Sir O

'Not all greedy bastards'... I'd like to actually see ONE that's not. Maybe lets see a Training Company put up and shut up.. Train the newb's FREE and just ask for what they think is a fair payment once they start actually trading for real. Call it 'Results Based Payment'.... IF I was trained in this manor I know I'd pay well if I was sure I was going to make well....!!!
They are all just trained by this trader of the century, or know this Trader of the century and are mentored by blah blah blah... I seriously think the only REAL way is through reading and TRYING...
My reasoning... Optionetics 250'000 students so they say, ok SO
250'000 (student base so they say)
x $3'000.00
$750'000'000.00
Don't forget to add the 50% or so people that
have paid for Platinum/ProfitSource etc not to
mention the $2000 to learn to use it...
ok add maybe a conservative
350'000'000.00
1050'000'000.00
Anyone tell me why George or Alex trade the markets... pfffft but im not bitter, im just out of pocket
Just my 2c

Anyone read 'Wolves of Wall Street' I saw that and was thinking it looked interesting to read!

 

[waza1960]

I think there is a good alternative course for those interested I'm doing a diploma course in share trading ATM and I think its quite good.I'm not going to mention the name of the course because I don't want to be accused of promoting it but if you google you would find it.I think it is good because it is reasonable value for money in that it does cost a bit under 6k but there are hundreds of hours study involved with assignments and case studies which really make you think about the subject matter.I really hesitated to post this information as I'm sure it will open up some critisism but I feel its important to make all study options known.While I commend and admire the successfull traders and their opinions on this forum I don't go along with the proposition that experience and practise are the only ways of being successfull i.e you can lose a lot of money gaining experience any way my

 

[Trembling Hand]

Try not to be too prejudiced towards people within the industry in future TH. We're not all Wolves of Wall street you know?

Cheers

Sir O

Nah Sir O you were the one that took offence from my post saying that if someone claims to be an expert and promises their course is worth $7000 ask for proof that they can make it work.

You were the one that chose to align yourself with the original poster snake oil salesman. not me.

And you still haven't answerd me to why every other hoppy course cost about 1/10 of trading courses.

 

[Trembling Hand]

.While I commend and admire the successfull traders and their opinions on this forum I don't go along with the proposition that experience and practise are the only ways of being successfull i.e you can lose a lot of money gaining experience any way my

WTF

I didn't say practise with real money. I have never said that. EVER!!!!!!

And if you think that what is in your course is the difference between profit and loss why is that everyone knows that stuff but so very few can make real money from that knowledge

 

[kam75]

I attended a seminar on the weekend and one of the speakers was Lyn Summers and she has a stock trading course called "Stockcourse" - has anyone done this course and if so was it worth the $7000?

What sort of a dumbass would pay someone $7,000 bucks for a stockmarket course? As if there wasn't enough information available on the net.

 

[tech/a]

Hmmm
I dont know that I agree with most here.
I'm actually siding with SirO.
Also with T/H.

Frankly a sound education in anything would be/is $1000s.
Have a look at your HEX payments.
Go learn to fly a plane or a Chopper.
If you think your education in trading ISNT costing you $1000s think again.

Years ago I did an Advanced Business Management Diploma with The Uni of Adelaide.
It was $5k ea and I had 3 staff with me.

Now I thought "Ive been in business 25 yrs what can a bunch of academics teach me?"
I came out with the answer---Plenty!
But will also say that I got more out of it than my staff!
Thats why you get more from a book on the second read.

But I agree with T/H.
I want to know my teachers can actually Do!
That they are the real deal.
If I'm satisfied then I'll the assess value for money.

 

[Aussiest]

Just because a a teaching course also needs to not hemorrhage cash flow from other areas of the business, does not make us greedy bastards. I might not have my gold toilet seat yet, but the lessons I teach others are the same ones I've used for financial stability.

Try not to be too prejudiced towards people within the industry in future TH. We're not all Wolves of Wall street you know?

There would have to be a small % of providers that are in it for the right reasons.

From what you've said Sir Osisofliver, your company provides charting software, reading material and other tangible aids. Teach a man/woman to fish, and they'll fish forever. If a provider is teaching principles of share trading and technical analysis and can substantiate this, then i don't see a problem using their services if this is what you require.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Frankly a sound education in anything would be/is $1000s.
Have a look at your HEX payments.

If you think your education in trading ISNT costing you $1000s think again.

yes the underlying being the important bit. Whats on offer from these dudes that professe to hold the secrets is not sound education.

And there is no recourse once you find out they will not deliver the promised dreams. Unlike most other education.

Go learn to fly a plane or a Chopper.

Well that's a fine example. The diff between a flying course and the average stock course is literally 100000000 miles. To teach flying.

You have an accredited license.
You have to be audited,
You have to have insurance,
You have to actually be able to fly.

Apparently to teach trading you have to just promise BS.

 

[Iggy_Pop]

Before paying $7K for a course, give yourself some time to read books on trading (there are a few good books mentioned on this forum), and use the internet, magazines to get an understanding of the market and trading. Some of the newsletters providers have a free trial and this also is helpful in learning trading.

Then if still a bit unsure, look at training from a selection of training providers and get an understanding of what you are getting for your money.

A practice account is one way to learn but it is different when it is real money

All the best

 

[skyQuake]

And there is no recourse once you find out they will not deliver the promised dreams. Unlike most other education.

orly?

So if i want my HECS removed for all those CAPM and EMH topics in finance i can do that?

 

[Timmy]

all those CAPM and EMH topics in finance i can do that?

Sucker

 

[Trembling Hand]

So if i want my HECS removed for all those CAPM and EMH topics in finance i can do that?

That was your dream :

 

[tech/a]

yes the underlying being the important bit. Whats on offer from these dudes that professe to hold the secrets is not sound education.

And there is no recourse once you find out they will not deliver the promised dreams. Unlike most other education.

Don't know about that---there are failures in everything.
Unfortunately MOST education wont allow a failure regardless of how in competent they are.
Mind you you'll soon know you cant fly a plane AND cant trade!

Well that's a fine example. The diff between a flying course and the average stock course is literally 100000000 miles. To teach flying.

You have an accredited license.
You have to be audited,
You have to have insurance,
You have to actually be able to fly.

Apparently to teach trading you have to just promise BS.

Average stock course yes.

But good educators ARE licienced--with THEIR OWN licience not a rented one!
They have proven track records that can be audited.
They can actually trade.

But if you wish to learn DIRECTLY from these people you'll have to pay and pay what its worth which is more than a few 100 dollars.

Most people want the dream.
Most people want the dream for free.
They fool themselves that its cheap.
When accounts are wiped out how cheap is cheap?

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

Nah Sir O you were the one that took offence from my post saying that if someone claims to be an expert and promises their course is worth $7000 ask for proof that they can make it work.

Actually TH I took offence at being called a desk jockey who couldn't do it and a scam artist who was having one of his income streams upset.

You were the one that chose to align yourself with the original poster snake oil salesman. not me.

I think I've fairly well differentiated what we do from what was described by the OP's comment to not be confused with a snake oil salesman.

And you still haven't answerd me to why every other hoppy course cost about 1/10 of trading courses.

You;re right I didn't. But that may be because I have no idea what other people charge and frankly don't care. FYI if you take away the cost of the software (which is provided by a third party), the remaining cost of our course works out less than $100 an hour, so by your own definition the course we do would seem to be good value for money.

Tech A has hit upon an important consideration. Some educators are licenced (or refered to as RTO's Registered Training Organisations). What this means of course is that if they produce educational material....they cannot make stuff up. Perhaps that is something to look for when you see these things advertised.


TH perhaps this might help explain why I think some training courses are worthwhile.......


Tell me what you don't know about trading and the market. Ok I know that is a loaded question, how can you tell me what you don't know? You have no way of knowing what it is that you don't know. You also have no way of knowing how important what it is you don't know is. It might be something simple along the lines of "What is a partly paid security?" Brisconnections anyone?

Where you are at the moment, having built up a vast amount of knowledge and skills, what you don't know is probably relatively small and probably not going to damage you, as opposed to someone who is yet to learn those hard won lessons that you yourself learnt. But whilst you were in that position of not knowing what you now know, you were just as vulnerable to that lack of information. THAT is what I want to protect and educate people about, and that is what a well designed educational course should do.

Cheers

Sir O

 

[Nick Radge]

You have an accredited license.
You have to be audited,
You have to have insurance

There are various levels of educators:

1. Full ASIC licensed. These need to show that they have the skills to provide the service and that these skills have been learnt from actually working in the business - not just studying it trading one's own account. They also need to have adequate indemnity insurance, be externally audited, provide ASIC all trading statements when requested, prove any claims made and complete ongoing education.

2. Rented ASIC license. These are usually held by people who don't qualify for some of the above yet have a product that they wish to operate under a license. There are a few operators who will 'lease' their license out to 3rd parties.

3. Accredited Training Courses. These people do not hold any ASIC license but have gained some accreditation for being able to teach others, in this case, trading. Anyone can do the course by walking in off the street and become accredited without any prior education in the markets. Subjects: Select a profitable company in a timely and accurate context; Determine the purchase price of a share; Select stock market strategies; Implement a trading plan; Trade options with use of leverage strategies; Determine portfolio requirements; Apply basic communication skills; Operate a Personal Computer; Using a keyboard; Use business technology.

4. Others. These tend to be people who have not thought to get a license or who would like to circumnavigate the reasons for getting a license. A very large proportion of operators fall into this category. Some mean well, others not so.

As usual - "its buyer beware" and "if its too good too be true, then it usually is"

 

[Trembling Hand]

You;re right I didn't. But that may be because I have no idea what other people charge and frankly don't care. FYI if you take away the cost of the software (which is provided by a third party), the remaining cost of our course works out less than $100 an hour, so by your own definition the course we do would seem to be good value for money.

Yes well there you go. We agree.

If they said to their potential clients that they where teaching you the basics to build on that would be acceptable and in that case the amount charged should be in line with other introductory courses put on for every other subject. That would be in the $50 to $100 an hour.

But they don't. They spew BS about riches from a couple of hours work. What does your firm say the clients are getting Sir O?

I see now why you went off rambling about my large capital and practise comment. The section in blue should of been separated. It was not meant to implicate you in the education scam. It was just an enquiry as to what you offered to clients. As stated in the same post we agree. Even on price

BUT I have written plenty here on the learning to trade subject and my position has always been that the basics are just that, the basics building blocks. What separates the successful and the struggling punter is the practise (sim or backtest not real $$'s) and the large account to sustain drawdowns and not needing to make 400% each year to beat cost and make the effort worth while. These two points are skipped over by most educators just to get the punters in the door.

 

[tech/a]

Tell me what you don't know about trading and the market.

Good point.

But then also.
Tell me what you DONT need to know about trading the market.