The Future of Private Health Insurance

[Belli]

Can you link to those stats?

The contrary argument

Anti-vaxxers misrepresent Pfizer report to say 1200 died in the first months of rollout

The false claim is a repeat of a tactic by activists using adverse events reports.

www.aap.com.au

You may also like to search RMIT data which refutes claims regarding the claim vaccinations were responsible for excess mortality.

Cochrane meta-analysis regarding efficacy of the vaccines.

Cochrane review of COVID-19 vaccines shows they are effective

A comprehensive review of all the evidence available from randomised controlled trials of COVID 19 vaccines up to November 2021 has concluded that most protect

www.cochrane.org

 

[qldfrog]

Can you link to those stats?

A bit busy now but yes will do

 

[qldfrog]

The contrary argument

Anti-vaxxers misrepresent Pfizer report to say 1200 died in the first months of rollout

The false claim is a repeat of a tactic by activists using adverse events reports.

www.aap.com.au

You may also like to search RMIT data which refutes claims regarding the claim vaccinations were responsible for excess mortality.

Cochrane meta-analysis regarding efficacy of the vaccines.

Cochrane review of COVID-19 vaccines shows they are effective

A comprehensive review of all the evidence available from randomised controlled trials of COVID 19 vaccines up to November 2021 has concluded that most protect

www.cochrane.org

A bit busy now but yes will do

Ok, to ensure I am not treated as a complotist: you know the ones saying that:
Vaccines did not reduce transmission now proven a fact..
Or that masks were fully useless..now again proven a fact..even in the woke NYT in case anyone still hang to this fairy tales
I point you to an Australian parliament site:

Research

Research

www.aph.gov.au

You will then read, understanding this is coming from a biased interest none the less:
In 2022 there were an estimated 18,600 to 20,200 more deaths (‘excess deaths’) than might have occurred in the absence of the COVID-19 pandemic. More than half of these deaths were from COVID-19, but the greater than expected number of deaths from cancer, dementia, diabetes, and heart disease highlight some of the pressures the pandemic placed on our health and care systems.
sure

Preliminary mortality figures for the first few months in 2023 show Australia is still experiencing excess deaths
roughly 10k extra in a 22 ...
and ongoing
the great gift of mRNA does not stop giving and is still killing right and left thru the younger generation mostly via irreparable heart damages and self immune damages...
Just numbers..
RMIT and government have a biased interest there,but so do you: trying to stay alive
The simpler way to see that mRNA effect is to compare mortality graph in countries with similar population and different injection rates
The top jabbed country in Europe was Portugal..
Their excess death curve is stunning.
Try to find it..I will try to find it back time allowing.
But this is outside the thread.
When your health is on the balance, use your brain
To bring it back to health insurance, I find it actually unfair that jabbed/multiple jabbed people and unjabbed one pay the same premium...
I was forced to be jabbed as many in this country..and elsewhere, I will not forget it and will never regret taking the time to ramp up knowledge on the mRNA process,
Then take a critical look at these, the existing previoushistory of failure and overreaction, and carefully select the risk involved: AZ for me with an unwanted immediate death risk(and not required vs Covid risk)
But a much better odds at not poisoning me forever.
Thanks God/luck, sciences and numbers litteracy , access to knowledge thru the internet and critical scientific process education....
Interlude over until I find Portugal death rates

 

[qldfrog]

Ok, to ensure I am not treated as a complotist: you know the ones saying that:
Vaccines did not reduce transmission now proven a fact..
Or that masks were fully useless..now again proven a fact..even in the woke NYT in case anyone still hang to this fairy tales
I point you to an Australian parliament site:

Research

Research

www.aph.gov.au

You will then read, understanding this is coming from a biased interest none the less:
In 2022 there were an estimated 18,600 to 20,200 more deaths (‘excess deaths’) than might have occurred in the absence of the COVID-19 pandemic. More than half of these deaths were from COVID-19, but the greater than expected number of deaths from cancer, dementia, diabetes, and heart disease highlight some of the pressures the pandemic placed on our health and care systems.
sure

Preliminary mortality figures for the first few months in 2023 show Australia is still experiencing excess deaths
roughly 10k extra in a 22 ...
and ongoing
the great gift of mRNA does not stop giving and is still killing right and left thru the younger generation mostly via irreparable heart damages and self immune damages...
Just numbers..
RMIT and government have a biased interest there,but so do you: trying to stay alive
The simpler way to see that mRNA effect is to compare mortality graph in countries with similar population and different injection rates
The top jabbed country in Europe was Portugal..
Their excess death curve is stunning.
Try to find it..I will try to find it back time allowing.
But this is outside the thread.
When your health is on the balance, use your brain
To bring it back to health insurance, I find it actually unfair that jabbed/multiple jabbed people and unjabbed one pay the same premium...
I was forced to be jabbed as many in this country..and elsewhere, I will not forget it and will never regret taking the time to ramp up knowledge on the mRNA process,
Then take a critical look at these, the existing previoushistory of failure and overreaction, and carefully select the risk involved: AZ for me with an unwanted immediate death risk(and not required vs Covid risk)
But a much better odds at not poisoning me forever.
Thanks God/luck, sciences and numbers litteracy , access to knowledge thru the internet and critical scientific process education....
Interlude over until I find Portugal death rates

Ok my last entry there about Portugal:
Not in a graphic form as I saw it a while back but up to 2024 so better data

https://www.portugalresident.com/portugal-registers-highest-level-of-excess-deaths-in-europe/

Why but why...probably a new variant of Covid? Or a Putin plot?
DYOR...you life should at least be important to you

 

[mullokintyre]

 

[farmerge]

View attachment 173784

Sick joke but a humorous one!!!!!

 

[mullokintyre]

One of the larger private Hospital owners, Healthscope has cancelled agreements with private health health insurance providers, BUPA and the AHSA over the failure by them to agree to pay more.
Its instructional that a private hospital firm, owned by a Canadian Private Equity fund, and one of Australia's larger private health providers BuPA , owned by a British firm, are arguing about which of them can screw the most out of OZ customers.
We have been long customers of BUPA, from the days when we were in HBA which got swallowed up by BUPA.
Mick

FromEvil Murdoch Press

Healthscope is ending its contracts with private health insurers Bupa and the Australian Health Services Alliance over their refusal to sustainably fund hospitals, in a decision that will affect more than six million Australians.
It is a dramatic escalation in the battle between Healthscope, Australia’s second largest private hospital operator, and the Australian Health Services Alliance which represents 26 small to medium sized private health insurance funds.

Bupa has 4.1 million health insurance members and the AHSA collectively covers more than 2.5 million people.

Healthscope in late October announced it would introduce a $100 gap fee for overnight hospital stays for Bupa and AHSA fund members, and said at the time that customers who didn’t like it should switch funds.

The hospital operator, which is owned by Canadian private equity fund Brookfield, has now upped the ante in its battle with the health funds, accusing them off “greed” and inflicting “financial pain on patients’’.

Healthscope chief executive officer Greg Horan said Bupa and the AHSA’s refusal to sustainably fund hospitals in a high-cost environment left Healthscope no option but to end the contracts.

“Healthscope cares for over 650,000 patients every year and we are absolutely committed to providing the best possible care. But we can only do this if we are adequately funded,” Mr Horan said.

It comes after Healthscope last month proposed a fee to help bridge the gap between the chronic underfunding from these insurers and the rising costs of providing high quality care.

It said the current step was the result of both insurers pursuing legal threats to stop the introduction of this fee.

“We were proposing the hospital facility fee following Bupa’s and the AHSA’s failure to recognise and fairly fund the rising cost of care. In the absence of fair funding, this fee was Healthscope’s best option,” Mr Horan added.

“In order for us to remain viable, we are left with no choice but to terminate the contracts.”

Mr Horan also warned of a “viability crisis” in hospitals across the country.

“Hospitals are losing money, and cannot attract new investment,” he said.

“Private Health Insurers are banking record profits – Bupa, in particular, has delivered enormous profits to its UK parent, while refusing to pay fairly for the care of its Australian members at Healthscope hospitals.”

The terminations will come into effect from 20 February for Bupa, and from 4 March 2025 for the AHSA funds.

The termination will impact all Bupa customers as well as the customers in the Alliance Group, which includes Australian Unity, GMHBA, Health Partners, Westfund and HIF.

The peak body for health funds Private Healthcare Australia immediately hit back on Friday morning, calling healthscope’s move “unethical’’.

“This is another unethical tactic from a $1 trillion North American private equity firm that appears intent on holding health fund members hostage, while also trying to bully health funds into paying them more so they can increase their profits,” Dr David said.

“If Healthscope was serious about delivering patient care to Australians in a cost-of-living crisis, it would negotiate an affordable and sustainable outcome, rather than throwing its toys out of the cot.

“There is no scope for health funds to pay across the board, above-inflation increases to private hospitals.

“People struggling with the cost of living will simply drop out or downgrade their health cover, which leaves Healthscope worse off as its customer base dries up.”

Dr David said if Healthscope followed through with its contract termination, patients could be charged thousands of dollars to receive care at a Healthscope-owned hospital.

“This is just not done in Australian health care,’’ she said.

“We don’t rip up contracts, we don’t hang patients out to dry and we don’t directly gouge patients like the American system..

“It’s really sad to see this North American private equity firm prepared to throw Australian patients, doctors, nurses and hospitals under the bus to enrich their investors.”

Dr David called on medical practitioners who work at Healthscope hospitals to consider alternative options given the uncertainty Healthscope has created for patients who were awaiting surgeries.

“In most locations, alternative hospital providers with more stable finances are available. There are empty beds and operating theatre capacity around the country, in some cases right next door to a Healthscope hospital,” she said.

“Federal Government data shows we now have more private hospitals in Australia than we did five years ago. There are more ethical hospital operators who are happy to talk to medical practitioners about switching patients, or doctors’ entire practices, to alternate facilities.”

BUPA has been contacted for comment.

 

[Bellcose]

One of the larger private Hospital owners, Healthscope has cancelled agreements with private health health insurance providers, BUPA and the AHSA over the failure by them to agree to pay more.
Its instructional that a private hospital firm, owned by a Canadian Private Equity fund, and one of Australia's larger private health providers BuPA , owned by a British firm, are arguing about which of them can screw the most out of OZ customers.
We have been long customers of BUPA, from the days when we were in HBA which got swallowed up by BUPA.
Mick

FromEvil Murdoch Press

The problem for me is a dual one. I haven't great confidence in the public system that I would receive treatment in a timely manner. The second is my taxable income is such I don't receive a private health insurance rebate but if I cancelled it I'd be subject to the Medicare levy surcharge which would be greater than the cost of insurance.

One of those so unfair moments.

 

[divs4ever]

The problem for me is a dual one. I haven't great confidence in the public system that I would receive treatment in a timely manner. The second is my taxable income is such I don't receive a private health insurance rebate but if I cancelled it I'd be subject to the Medicare levy surcharge which would be greater than the cost of insurance.

One of those so unfair moments.

yes but a not so bad problem

they ring to sell me health insurance .. i say myocardial infarction , and they quickly hang up , but i was forcibly retired .. so not so worried about the tax implications .

let's face it long air flights or ocean cruises aren't on my list any more

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

yes but a not so bad problem

they ring to sell me health insurance .. i say myocardial infarction , and they quickly hang up , but i was forcibly retired .. so not so worried about the tax implications .

let's face it long air flights or ocean cruises aren't on my list any more

I'm in a similar boat, or not in the boat I should say. Travel insurance quotes are prohibitive for me, I'm quite healthy atm. but have a lot of conditions that add up when they calculate the premium. I'm thinking of a trip just to countries with a reciprocal Medicare agreement once the bigger planes can get me to a suitable European country in one hop.

gg

 

[Craton]

Interesting this thread should surface today because a few hours ago, I've cancelled my private health cover. Not even the offer of changing to a lower cover and a 12% discount was tempting enough for me to consider the reduced monthly premium.

The only benefit having the cover was when my dearly departed become seriously ill but since her death in 2011, apart from optical and dental, which cost far less than the yearly premium, nope, I can no longer justify having private health cover.

Also too, if I'm being brutally honest, I've only kept this going more of a homage to my late wife than for any real necessity on my part.
Rhetorical question.
Funny how one thinks and acts on that thinking isn't it?

 

[finicky]

I think it's strange that people complain that they're not getting benefits from health insurance. That's good! It means you haven't had a serious issue, let alone a protracted one. Insurance, let me remind, is a device so that a lot of premium paying small losers support a few cashing out big losers. It's the best form of socialism - it's voluntary. Of course I am ignoring whether they are run efficiently.
And a stern word to you @Craton, whom I like. You've taken the vaccines, as you have generously narrated, and the jury is out on those. At least take onboard that some highly intelligent people, such as myself, view them as pernicious. Are you people insane?

 

[JohnDe]

I think it's strange that people complain that they're not getting benefits from health insurance. That's good! It means you haven't had a serious issue, let alone a protracted one. Insurance, let me remind, is a device so that a lot of premium paying small losers support a few cashing out big losers. It's the best form of socialism - it's voluntary. Of course I am ignoring whether they are run efficiently.
And a stern word to you @Craton, whom I like. You've taken the vaccines, as you have generously narrated, and the jury is out on those. At least take onboard that some highly intelligent people, such as myself, view them as pernicious. Are you people insane?

My brother in-law has been laughing at me for years, because I have private health cover and he doesn't but gets everything he needs from the public system, and he milks the system to the max because he suffers severe asthma.

That stopped recently.

He has had issues with his knees for several years, sports related, and early this year he was told that he needs major surgery on one knee. His pain is through the roof, the cortisone injection worked for a day and there is no pain relief. He's been on the public waiting list for a couple of years, and they have moved him up the list but that is still a couple of years wait.

What to do? He signed up for private health, will wait the required time period and then get the required surgery.

 

[finicky]

My mother who was never sick used to whinge about getting nothing out of decades of top tier private insurance. My father, who used his brain, laughed at her. He paid for it one way or another, through earning in a stressful job or much later through qualifying for a POW vet's gold card which also covered the free-loading spouses. Even back then I thought, "You do get something out of it - you live with the sense of security that you won't potentially get wiped out financially in addition to dealing with a serious medical issue". Pyschological security is obviously a 'benefit' to premium payers who never claim.

 

[qldfrog]

My mother who was never sick used to whinge about getting nothing out of decades of top tier private insurance. My father, who used his brain, laughed at her. He paid for it one way or another, through earning in a stressful job or much later through qualifying for a POW vet's gold card which also covered the free-loading spouses. Even back then I thought, "You do get something out of it - you live with the sense of security that you won't potentially get wiped out financially in addition to dealing with a serious medical issue". Pyschological security is obviously a 'benefit' to premium payers who never claim.

I agree with you, paying a lot getting not much for years but peace of mind.
I just wonder if all the ancillary covers are worth but each time i check, i discover that the extra vs basic hospital is actually not that much
Thread is prescient:
My better half discovered yesterday she got $40 back from Bupa for a dentist $200+ bill , simple small filling.
So we were at Bupa this very morning, and discovered we could use the nearly local Bupa dental practice and get free or better refunded treatment.
So I have an appointment in 2 weeks..which should be free and even gain me a $40 gift card
If with bupa, try to use their recommended providers...

 

[divs4ever]

I agree with you, paying a lot getting not much for years but peace of mind.
I just wonder if all the ancillary covers are worth but each time i check, i discover that the extra vs basic hospital is actually not that much
Thread is prescient:
My better half discovered yesterday she got $40 back from Bupa for a dentist $200+ bill , simple small filling.
So we were at Bupa this very morning, and discovered we could use the nearly local Bupa dental practice and get free or better refunded treatment.
So I have an appointment in 2 weeks..which should be free and even gain me a $40 gift card
If with bupa, try to use their recommended providers...

i got false teeth ( all of them ) at 21 , one less reason i needed private health insurance

besides i have had ill health all my life , and just worked with it ( or around it ) , i didn't even have a medicare card for 20 years

AND have so far resisted investing in health insurers

but i did dabble extensively in herbal/natural medicine , sometimes i am well ahead of the GP curve ( after all they mainly treat the symptoms )

i did buy into Blackmores ( now taken-over ) and Vita Life Sciences ( VLS ) you can do a lot of interesting stuff with products freely available in the supermarket

 

[farmerge]

For Me and She private health cover has been proven.
When I was cleaned up by the bull nearly 5 years ago, my 6 day stint in RPH was over $13 grand.
On top of that was the many visits to X-ray lab, physio, etc. All covered by our provider HBF.
We also have Gap Saver which is no longer available, but only to those who took it up years ago.
For approximately $4 grand a year we get 100 per cent refunds on everything except the visit to the local GP.
So if we whinge long and loud about costs most times that visit is bulk-billed.
For us, private cover is a no brainer.
Queuing for treatment at a hospital doesn't happen.
From that experience with the rampaging bull, I have had since then 3 overnight stays in hospital.
The waiting time from seeing the surgeon to the knife was on average 10 days.

 

[Bellcose]

I agree with you, paying a lot getting not much for years but peace of mind.
I just wonder if all the ancillary covers are worth but each time i check, i discover that the extra vs basic hospital is actually not that much

A couple of years ago I had an nine day admission and quite a few hours on the operating table. The hospital accommodation charges, theatre, three days in ICU, etc total just over $24k. The cost to me was the $250 excess. Have had a couple of day surgeries since then and each was about $1.8k. I reckon having private health insurance is worth it, particularity as you age.

As for ancillaries I cancelled that aspect. Don't feel like travelling to Sydney to attend one of their dental clinics and my attendance at a dentist twice a year has cost about $500 in total. Haven't had the need for other dental care for over five years. As for optical, the numbers simply didn't add up to make ancillary cover worthwhile for me.

 

[qldfrog]

A couple of years ago I had an nine day admission and quite a few hours on the operating table. The hospital accommodation charges, theatre, three days in ICU, etc total just over $24k. The cost to me was the $250 excess. Have had a couple of day surgeries since then and each was about $1.8k. I reckon having private health insurance is worth it, particularity as you age.

As for ancillaries I cancelled that aspect. Don't feel like travelling to Sydney to attend one of their dental clinics and my attendance at a dentist twice a year has cost about $500 in total. Haven't had the need for other dental care for over five years. As for optical, the numbers simply didn't add up to make ancillary cover worthwhile for me.

I
wonder how you did that: I had prime cover around 15 y ago, and had a serious hand accident, nearly cutting it off, multiple stay at hospital, graft, redirecting nerves, the lot; 2 night in hospital, none in critical...
Still had to pay 2k still out of pocket 15y ago..so imagine now
But good on you and I hope this is now true

 

[JohnDe]

People are a strange lot.

I know a few that refuse to take out private cover, expecting the public health system to take care of everything. When a health issue pops up that is not life threatening and requires a wait of one or more years, they scream blue murder and abuse governments and the medical system. They don't think about the cost to the tax system and the workers, but they'll go on that holiday to Bali or Europe without a second thought.