Trading Tigers

[SIFIIK]

Thanks for your answer, i just need to check as it is ASF policy for company workers to disclose their connections.

Are there audited results? If so who audits them? Are they available to the public? If not, why not? Can I obtain a copy in order to verify them?

I must admit i am still struggling to get my head around why someone would pay so much for a course, and if the course is so succesful then why those selling the course dont just trade for themselves or start their own hedge fund and take on investors. And then why those who do pay have to sign non disclose agreements and cant say what levels they are targeting or where their stops are set

RE: audited results? - read my Posts - they are audited at the end of the trading year (mid January) by an international and located in Australia Accountancy firm and verified by them. Contact investor Centre for this information 07 3390 5130.

Re: dont just trade for themselves. He does and is a multi multi - he is a car fanatic and in addition to his something like 18 luxury cars he has a boat etc etc. I repeat - he does this and more and is keenly interested in sharing the knowledge to ensure that those interested will be recognised by ASIC when the bans come into force (They already are in force in a number of countries such as France).

It is a fact whether you are seeking wealth, personal development, peace of mind or whatever - people are less likely to persist if they do not need to make a financial investment.

Re: why those who do pay have to sign non disclose agreements. Go figure fool

I choose not to disclose my targets, because I am honourable and as you seem, as I said previously - to be fishing for a freebie.

P.s. Trade is now active again - re-entered just a few moments ago.

if you do your sums - you might be able to figure out what that entry price is

 

[prawn_86]

Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...

What exit level are you targeting?

Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?

 

[SIFIIK]

Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...

What exit level are you targeting?

Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?

Firstly apologies for calling you a fool; I don't mean that.

Off the top of my head I cannot recall the auditor but I think it is KPMG but I have seen them in the past - Jody publishes the KPMG findings to the tigers each year - I just don't keep them. I've given you the phone number and you can call them - why do you persist in sounding so cynical. I am not trying to convert you; just trying to provide you answers to your queries.

re levels - as I have stated in the past there are a number of targets provided with probabilities of them being achieved. Members choose the targets they feel most comfortable with. They range from 28 points to 70 points in this particular trade, but as also mentioned this particular trade has shown results of 140 points also.

I chose to take the 28 point target last night as the US market appeared to be strengthening (as it did). This has allowed me to now re-enter at the same price as yesterday with 28 points in my pocket. So I could hang out for a large target or I can accumulate by bunny hunting - see below for explanation

I naturally am targeting a larger win currently, say approx 50 points but may do the same again (its called bunny hunting - in, out & in again on the rebounds) with smaller targets. (Tigers usually hunt gazelles but occasionally will hunt a smaller prey). I will assess it progressively (I expect there will be a sizeable a fall in the US market tonight) and if the market goes into steep fall then I will increase my target but if it hovers I might hunt a bunny again.

Does this help?

 

[SIFIIK]

Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...

What exit level are you targeting?

Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?

I'm just not sure why you call it hindsight trading when I have given you information that can be validated if you look at the charts. Try starting at yesterday's 4pm & closing price on the March SPI. I have told you that I am back in now and was holding out for a level which was achieved after 2.00pm - I'm being pretty transparent without breaching my confidentiality clause, Please don't call it hindsight when I have given you starting date, finishing date and a couple of strategies available to us throughout that period. All measurable - none hindsight

 

[SIFIIK]

Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...

What exit level are you targeting?

Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?

We also have an alternative strategy that allows us to "ambush" for an entry at a higher level than the nominated entry point - this allows for shifts in the night market and sometimes day market to "add weight" or simply enter 50% strength at the nominated level and then 50% at an ambush level (% ratios can be varied also).

So whilst I have re-entered at full strength after 2pm, and as I am up for the year on my capital, I also have placed an order for an additional 50% at ambush at a level in the low 5000s but not teens. Looks like I could be lucky and be set in that as well. Nevertheless I am now back in at full strength as mentioned. The stop for this if it is set remains the same as for the original entry i.e. it is tighter, limiting my loss on the additional entry if it occurs.

As mentioned previously we do not have stops in the night market and whilst this sounds dangerous as the night market can be subject to volatile swings we have strategies for placing covering insurance in the night market. Generally these insurance strategies apply to a long position due to the possibility of a "crash down" as a result of very bad news or what is called a "fat finger trade". Short positions are less in need of these insurance strategies as "crash ups" rarely occur.

Tell me if you are enjoying these explanations or at least appreciate them.

 

[tech/a]

Personally no not enjoying the condescending confrontational exchanges.
Directed toward the Prawn

Tigers/Gazzells ----- and plenty of succulent Bunnies.

Now I'm a duck and I can spot a rabbit miles away!

 

[SIFIIK]

Personally no not enjoying the condescending confrontational exchanges.
Directed toward the Prawn

Tigers/Gazzells ----- and plenty of succulent Bunnies.

Now I'm a duck and I can spot a rabbit miles away!

Sigh, Sorry to confuse you - was trying to use an analogy that normally a tiger would seek a substantial meal (target) but occasionally when that is not on offer a smaller morsel has to do.

Glad you can recognise a rabbit. Responses may sound condescending but frustration at posts with detailed info not being read and then questions along same lines being asked. I think the prawn is appreciative (slowly) at the picture I am painting.

We'll see. Meanwhile keep on keeping on

 

[SIFIIK]

Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...

What exit level are you targeting?

Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?

Hi Prawn,

just thought I'd let you know the trade was stopped out this morning. Official result - losing trade.

Oh well better next time

 

[prawn_86]

What level were you stopped at?

Feel free to keep posting live trades to show how this system works

 

[ftw129]

Hi Prawn,

just thought I'd let you know the trade was stopped out this morning. Official result - losing trade.

Oh well better next time

Hi SIFIIK,

What sort of position sizing does Jody advocate per trade in relation to your overall total trading bank?

 

[SIFIIK]

What level were you stopped at?

Feel free to keep posting live trades to show how this system works

Interestingly at the maximum 5033. Sometimes we wonder if our broker is not playing against us sometimes - but hey there is plenty to wonder about in this market. Not to worry - no-one has ever claimed all of our trades are successful. Over the course of the year I expect to make a sound profit.

As per posting live trades - i certainly don't feel obligated but I may contact you personally as the only other comments made to date have been cynical without any apparent interest

Thanks for your patience.

As mentioned I promised to be honest

 

[SIFIIK]

Hi SIFIIK,

What sort of position sizing does Jody advocate per trade in relation to your overall total trading bank?

He is very strong on both Risk Management and Money Management.

Those that lose and become disillusioned often break these rules as a result of their succumbing to the age old killers in the market - greed and fear

We never take a position greater than a conservative, set % of our total trading capital. naturally after this trade my next position will be smaller. As gains are accumulated the % remains the same but positions become larger. There is only one trade in the year that traditionally has been so successful that we might increase that % and that is one of the last trades in the year, so it cannot decimate your capital. 2011 was the first time in history that trade lost

by taking a set % it is not possible to lose all your capital - but of course it can diminish towards zero if all trades were to be losing trades

 

[ftw129]

Thanks SIFIIK,

I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience here and I'm sure many others do too. Including the ones that are skeptical.

Hopefully you can understand why they are. If not, why not ask the question?

Personally, I will read this thread with interest should it continue.

So far, from reading many threads similar to this, there is one common theme to ALL of them. That is, there is a lack of ongoing documentation of the success of these, what I will call, "packaged strategies".

Some boast to have been going for over 10 years and having "educated" and sold to many thousands of people, yet I am yet to come across one that has been able to demonstrate that it has been successful in not only packaging and selling their product BUT have a long list of success stories that are willing to come forward and say something along the lines of "YES, I have traded this product for 5 years now and it works! I have achieved all of the claims that have been made and my returns have averaged XXXX per annum. I and thousands of others have been doing this for years now and it works!"

Maybe I've missed it but if any other members of this forum can point me to a thread that shows something along these lines I'd be very grateful as I may have missed it.

SIFIIK, I am not at all doubting the ability of Jody to make consistent returns using his own methods. I just want to witness someone be able to successfully emulate one of these "packaged strategies" for an extended period of time.

I totally understand your apprehension in providing so much value to a forum that is ready to challenge such things with great vigor but hopefully you can understand that this looks like a carbon copy of so many similar threads that eventually fade off and the defenders disappear having pretty much proved nothing and in many instances have just damage the reputation of the "products".

People just want proof. However, "audited results" of the owner of the product just won't cut it. What matters is the students/members results over a prolonged period of time.

 

[SIFIIK]

Thanks SIFIIK,

I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience here and I'm sure many others do too. Including the ones that are skeptical.

Hopefully you can understand why they are. If not, why not ask the question?

Personally, I will read this thread with interest should it continue.

So far, from reading many threads similar to this, there is one common theme to ALL of them. That is, there is a lack of ongoing documentation of the success of these, what I will call, "packaged strategies".

Some boast to have been going for over 10 years and having "educated" and sold to many thousands of people, yet I am yet to come across one that has been able to demonstrate that it has been successful in not only packaging and selling their product BUT have a long list of success stories that are willing to come forward and say something along the lines of "YES, I have traded this product for 5 years now and it works! I have achieved all of the claims that have been made and my returns have averaged XXXX per annum. I and thousands of others have been doing this for years now and it works!"

Maybe I've missed it but if any other members of this forum can point me to a thread that shows something along these lines I'd be very grateful as I may have missed it.

SIFIIK, I am not at all doubting the ability of Jody to make consistent returns using his own methods. I just want to witness someone be able to successfully emulate one of these "packaged strategies" for an extended period of time.

I totally understand your apprehension in providing so much value to a forum that is ready to challenge such things with great vigor but hopefully you can understand that this looks like a carbon copy of so many similar threads that eventually fade off and the defenders disappear having pretty much proved nothing and in many instances have just damage the reputation of the "products".

People just want proof. However, "audited results" of the owner of the product just won't cut it. What matters is the students/members results over a prolonged period of time.

Appreciate your thoughts FTW. when I saw this thread it was not a call to defend (the Trading Tigers program) that drew me in but to perhaps provide some insight into the mechanism as best i could to the naysayers. Faceless negativity really is a weak form of offense. Bit like someone you're dating txting you to tell you it is over rather than telling you face to face or at least voice to voice.

Incidentally this trade that you have been following also failed last year and that is unusual. It is true - bad news travels fast and good news travels last, but perhaps I might continue to post when other trades are on.

A loss early in the year inevitably affects the final outcome at the year end as we do work on a stringent Money Management policy. i.e. I will be entering with a smaller position in the next trade due to a reduced capital base compared to prior to my entry into this trade just passed.

Given that, in order to provide some forewarning to the naysayers - the next trade will be somewhere around 13th-15th March. it will be a long trade in the March SPI. I guess I can give the following statistical info without breaching confidentiality. Historically it has been successful 83% of the time with the best result being approximately 60pts and the worst loss approx 25 points.

Unlike the trade just past this next trade will be a one time entry only - i.e. no strategy to re-enter if and when profits have been taken.

Again I will post info after I have entered the trade, as I will not be suckered into giving anyone a free ride and also to preserve my agreement to confidentiality. I will give the same type of info as I have on this occasion. One thing I can say is that the outcome of this trade can be affected if Easter is close to it (which it isn't in 2013) as oil tends to rise prior to Easter and this of course has an impact on the mining influenced Australian market. So I will have a clearer idea of the probable strength of this trade in the week of its entry.

I am presuming the trade following that will be somewhere around the expiry of the Mar SPI followed by the following trade being around Easter although both occur fairly close to each other this year and therefore might run into one trade rather two.

Hope this provides enough info well prior to the event so that the naysayers do not allege I am just making them up.

Cheers, All

Last year not one TT reported a loss on this next trade even though it was a little tricky.

 

[prawn_86]

If you are only trading once a month or so, then what aco**** size do you need? If you take 60 points at best the account is not going to grow very fast utilising proper money management (2% rule), and that is assuming a 100% win rate

 

[ftw129]

Incidentally this trade that you have been following also failed last year and that is unusual. It is true - bad news travels fast and good news travels last, but perhaps I might continue to post when other trades are on.

A loss early in the year inevitably affects the final outcome at the year end as we do work on a stringent Money Management policy. i.e. I will be entering with a smaller position in the next trade due to a reduced capital base compared to prior to my entry into this trade just passed.

Thanks SIFIIK for the reply,

I was happy to leave it at that but I do feel the need to let you know (in case you don't) that most experienced traders understand that EVERY trading plan will suffer losses and that even if there is a string of them that deviates from the statistics of the strategies "norm", over time, probability and risk management "should" prevail.

So please don't be discouraged to post, even if there is a string of losses. There may be noise and "I told you so's" but eventually it should work out... right?

The truth will come out in the end

 

[SIFIIK]

If you are only trading once a month or so, then what aco**** size do you need? If you take 60 points at best the account is not going to grow very fast utilising proper money management (2% rule), and that is assuming a 100% win rate

Many assumptions there Prawn.

1. I didn't say that trades are once a month

2. I didn't say all trades return 60%

3. I didn't mention anything about 2%.

As you would know if you know anything about Money Management - you can start with any amount of money as long you are able to afford the margin of 1 contract and meet the money management guidelines. Of course if your first trade turned out to be a loss then you would not be able to continue.

I think most people advocating trading in highly leaveraged indices suggest a starting bank of say $10,000, but it is not imperative

 

[prawn_86]

Many assumptions there Prawn.

1. I didn't say that trades are once a month

2. I didn't say all trades return 60%

3. I didn't mention anything about 2%.

1. Next trade is in March, roughly a month away so i extrapolated from that could be wrong.

2. I said 60 points, not %

3. 2% is a very standard risk management rule that every short term trader knows about. Do you risk more than this per trade?

Im sure someone out there could work out what 60 points off 10k account size equates to if employing correct money management, but it wouldn't grow the account very fast imo (which isnt a bad thing but seems well below the TT claims)

 

[prawn_86]

Appreciate your thoughts FTW. when I saw this thread it was not a call to defend (the Trading Tigers program) that drew me in but to perhaps provide some insight into the mechanism as best i could to the naysayers.

So if you have an interest in finance, stocks, trading and economics why is this the only thread you have posted in?

 

[SIFIIK]

1. Next trade is in March, roughly a month away so i extrapolated from that could be wrong.

2. I said 60 points, not %

3. 2% is a very standard risk management rule that every short term trader knows about. Do you risk more than this per trade?

Im sure someone out there could work out what 60 points off 10k account size equates to if employing correct money management, but it wouldn't grow the account very fast imo (which isnt a bad thing but seems well below the TT claims)

1. previously I said approx 20 TT trades per year. 52/20=2.6 weeks
2. typo error on my part. Some trades are smaller profit results and other are significantly higher but as I said members can choose the % probability of the various targets offered and also those various trades that offer re-entries can result in accumulated profit results in the one trade. Once the stop has been hit however, the trade is over

If you remember, I took 28 points profit Thursday night so my loss was 28 points less than the stop level above my entry - not too costly in this case in fact minimal. Other TTs may not have taken that profit and would have borne the full loss of being stopped out. As I said there is a degree of flexibility/choice available to the members but the stop loss is fixed (unless of course they succumb to greed or fear).

To be very clear - not all TT members necessarily experience the same number of points profits in their trades. Some are more accomplished than others and when there is choice sometimes luck can play a part (either way).

3. I said 60 points win (in that particular case) not loss. Money management combined with risk management means most emphatically that one can limit their loss against the suggested stop level to ensure they do not lose any more than their calculated amount they are prepared to. i.e. nominated stop loss equated to a $ amount means you can choose the number of contracts (no greater than the Money Management rule) to enter such that you know your total loss. There was never mention of 60 points loss