Mentored Trading/Investing

[zac]

Theres a lot of assumptions there.
and while I ask for comments, opinions etc all they will ever be are circumstantial information with no real basis unless someone can back them up.
Hence im just after an opinion. Not sure why everyone gets so matter of fact and a bee in their bonnet.

Re the offer/call I had, it wasnt a cold call. I made some enquiries that led me down the path.

Anyway I will consider this thread closed, while I encourage skepticism, the threads tend to become more cynical.

 

[tech/a]

Theres a lot of assumptions

Anyway I will consider this thread closed, while I encourage skepticism, the threads tend to become more cynical.

Hmmm don't know about that!

I'd suggest the poster is the cynical party in this thread.

 

[zac]

Maybe so,
Anyway I appreciate all the constructive comments and advice offered.

I hope to make a career out of this eventually hence why im keen to learn as much as I can.
At the moment while successful from a percentage point of view my capital isnt quite large enough yet. Also im looking to expand on my types of trades.

 

[Trembling Hand]

I hope to make a career out of this eventually hence why im keen to learn as much as I can.

Zac how old are you?

What types of trading do you do now? Have you done any formal education(Uni etc)?

 

[zac]

Zac how old are you?

What types of trading do you do now? Have you done any formal education(Uni etc)?

In my 30s and ive not been to uni yet started out as an electronic engineering tradesperson.
Currently I work in the legal arena so ive never been exposed from a work perspective to the finance sector.

I consider myself a step above beginner and I may have given the wrong impression that im at a higher level when infact im not. Im just forward thinking and trying to lay out a map of how to get there.

Currently I am trading mainly American markets with both monthly income strategies and longerterm trades for capital gain.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

zac, the vibe you're giving off is very uncertain. Given that, why would you go ahead?

When in the history of mankind has someone felt wary and uncertain of a project/person and yet things have worked out nicely? It doesn't work that way. Deep down you know this too.

Successful people never go looking for students, EVER. Students go looking for them, and they have to jump through hoops to even get noticed.

 

[zac]

zac, the vibe you're giving off is very uncertain. Given that, why would you go ahead?

When in the history of mankind has someone felt wary and uncertain of a project/person and yet things have worked out nicely? It doesn't work that way. Deep down you know this too.

Successful people never go looking for students, EVER. Students go looking for them, and they have to jump through hoops to even get noticed.

The joys of words without voice inflection LOL
I dont mean to come off as uncertain and yeah youre right.
Successful people dont go looking for people however I could start a whole new topic there. I could name a few (not necessarily in finance) who do look to impart their knowledge.

Ive decided against that mentor purely due to his methods dont fit into mine.
On another note I actually sought them out.

There is another mentor where he will only accpt people after an application process.
Whilst I do have uncertainty ahead I have lots of certainty as to the path I want to take.
Cheers

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Good to hear. You just saved yourself $15000.

Might as well put that money to use. Pick a stock, hit 'buy', have a target and a stop... then teach yourself from the experience.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Here's one, no charge!

CCC - put a buy in at 25.5. When/if you get filled, sell at 35 or 23.5 or 2 months, whichever of those 3 events happens first.

 

[skc]

zac,

Have you ever had a mentor in other situations? E.g. work, personal life etc?

Regardless of how good your mentor may be, it takes a fair bit of effort to make any mentorship works. If you've never had a mentor before, do a quick google to see how to get the most out of a mentorship. That will get you thinking exactly what you should be looking for, and be able to assess whoever happens to come your way.

Remember a mentor isn't someone who tells you whether you should be using 15 or 20-day moving average on your charts. It is someone who guides you to solve the problem on your own, while also offering motivation, feedback and emotional support etc.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I'm generally against mentoring because very few successful people know how or why they are successful. They will say "just do this... do that", then you do it yourself and it doesn't work, then they look at you blankly and say "well I don't know why that didn't work, because that's what I do". If it was simply a matter of "do this...do that", all you'd have to do is read a book by any successful trader and just "do this do that"....right?

A good mentor is primarily a good observer. He will know you inside and out, know your hidden motivations, your weaknesses, strengths. But to be picked up by a top coach you'd probably have to show a lot of natural talent and/or aptitude. Thorpe didn't get to be coached by Nugent because he "wanted to be a top swimmer".

Bit of a catch-22. That's why I say, teach yourself.

 

[zac]

Fair call,
Good question though, have I ever had a mentor before in life.
Ive had coaches as such and at the moment im part of a coaching community (not fiannce related) and I guess thats where I realise the potential in quality coaching/mentorship.

Another good point, its not a case of one size fits all. Its like having a good counsellor, they need to be able to relate to you.
I beleive to get success though you do need some form of guidance. Sure you can be great on your own but results will be synergistic with other resources.

At the moment I guess I already am seeking some guidance through a paid service im going through although not personalised.
I notice others have similar on ASF through pricey subscriptions to other services.

So as for pursuing a quality mentor/coach I will keep my eyes open but understand it might not happen.

 

[Trembling Hand]

You want a trading mentor? Go get a gig at a prop shop. End of story.

 

[zac]

You want a trading mentor? Go get a gig at a prop shop. End of story.

Prop shop??

 

[Trembling Hand]

Prop shop??

http://www.propex.net.au/

http://www.aliom.com.au/pages/view/careers

http://www.silkroadcapital.com.au/

http://prop-traders.net/

 

[zac]

Ok,
Cheers, thanks heaps.
I think ive gotten the answers im looking for now.
What ive realised is there are a lot of people that do trading and a lot of experts. Most of them I wouldnt want to be coached by.

Of note my trading Id like to eventually get into is Global Markets, therefore not limited to just ASX, S&P500, Nikkei etc.
Therefore I realise now if my radar picks up on someone I like or a style I like, I will then pursue that avenue.

So thanks so much for everyones responses here. While it may not seem it through the posts, ive a lot more clarity now on how to go about this

 

[tech/a]

Bit of a catch-22. That's why I say, teach yourself.

Dont have enough time for myself let alone someone else!

 

[herzy]

Dont have enough time for myself let alone someone else!

+ 1. Not that I'm in a position to teach anyone lol! I'm currently doing my best to teach myself as Gringotts Bank recommends, but it's easier said than done...

 

[zac]

fair call,
Its hard to find someone that wants to give back and do good for others.
They are out there though. I hope oneday I can become successful and give back too.

 

[peter2]

Most beginners and unprofitable traders don't work hard enough to become profitable. Their work is not disciplined nor is it applied persistently. Their trading plans are incomplete and they give up too easily. A mentor can provide the structure but they can't make a person do the work every day or every week. A mentor can't make someone more patient, more persistent. A mentor can educate and help a prospective trader to survive. Hopefully, to survive long enough to develop the mindset and skills to be profitable. A mentor is not the easy way to profits only a faster way if you have the right stuff (borrowed phrase).

IMO it starts with detailed records of all your trades. These records (or spreadsheet) is the start to your trading career. You can monitor the quality of your performance and all of your trading decisions. Are your setups perfect? Are your entries done at the right time? Did you buy the right number of shares for your starting risk? Did you add when you should? Did you reduce the risk when you should? Did you exit at your initial SL, trailing stop or profit target? You can monitor everything you want if you want to improve. Set your standards very high. Aim for >95% (nobody is perfect). This allows me only one mistake in every 20 trades.

Monitoring my own performance shows me that I can be profitable with >90% execution quality. I lose money when my performance drops to 80%. It's a fine line between profit and loss.

If you want to know what you are good at and what you need to improve you don't need a mentor. Just look at your trading records. It's all in there if you want it bad enough.