Japanese Whaling

[Happy]

But what if there are no whales left? Or particular species of whales? Or dolphins.... Or whatever we humans are making extinct.

Well,
Rituals will have to be changed, that’s for sure.

Unless they find a substitute, like soya drink instead of milk .

 

[Ageo]

But what if there are no whales left? Or particular species of whales? Or dolphins.... Or whatever we humans are making extinct.

Pat its like hunting in Africa, In Kenya elephant hunting is banned but numbers are at their lowest because illegal poaching is at an all time high. Where is is somewhere like Botswana elephant hunting is allowed but is controlled (by qouta), and the numbers are on the rise there simply because hunting brings in alot of cash which is then spread among the people so they dont poach.

The same thing is here, if you give them (legitmate whalers) a certain number to harvest so that way its sustainable (meaning the numbers will still grow) then its a win win for both people.

Thats how the world should be run, a good balance in between and thats proper conservation.

 

[Pat]

Well,
Rituals will have to be changed, that’s for sure.

Unless they find a substitute, like soya drink instead of milk .

I reckon they can keep there rituals, god given rights, but I do think they should cut down on the extinction process. Now If, lets say they took 2% of the whale population per year, and the whale population grew by 8% then thats reasonable. But as far as I know, some, if not most whale specie populations are still in decline.
And agree Ageo, didn't read your post, I'm at work and sometimes it takes a while to finish writing my post.

 

[disarray]

i don't approve of unnecessary hunting of intelligent species. whales have large brains, communicate with each other and form social groups, exhibiting obvious signs of intelligence. while nowhere near our level, whales and pigs are more intelligent than other food species such as cows, sheep, chickens and fish.

there is no real reason for us to hunt them in a survival sense so its bad karma to go around slaughtering other intelligent species. the use of battery farming also pisses me off because its such an affront against nature. i would rather see us controlling the growth of the human population than having to harvest more and more of earths finite resources.

 

[Pat]

i don't approve of unnecessary hunting of intelligent species.

This sould read "unnecessary hunting of any animal".

whales have large brains, communicate with each other and form social groups, exhibiting obvious signs of intelligence. while nowhere near our level, whales and pigs are more intelligent than other food species such as cows, sheep, chickens and fish.

IMO brain size does not determine intelligence, I'd say it's how much "brain power" is actually used, I'd say dogs are very smart, intelligent animals, even the little ones, with little skulls that contain little brains.

 

[Ageo]

This sould read "unnecessary hunting of any animal".

Pat i understand your love for animals but forget todays Metro Age for a second and think of how people use to harvest their food years ago? hunting is much more than what you think (killing and slaughtering), hunting is conservation in a big way i.e culling feral animals to protect native animals from becoming extict, provides incomes for farmers where like now goat and roo meat are a growing demand and the roo and goat numbers are out of control (so while they keep these numbers in check they also provide an economy).

Hunting also provides a food source, i have enough meat in my freezer thats worth in the shops for around $2000 (retail price). Why should i pay for meat thats no where as good quality when i can hunt it for free and get fresh quality meat.

People tend to forget how we got to this day and age, i hate slaughtering, but i enjoy hunting and theres a big difference between the two).

Sorry about the off topic btw

 

[Pat]

Pat i understand your love for animals but forget todays Metro Age for a second and think of how people use to harvest their food years ago? hunting is much more than what you think (killing and slaughtering), hunting is conservation in a big way i.e culling feral animals to protect native animals from becoming extict, provides incomes for farmers where like now goat and roo meat are a growing demand and the roo and goat numbers are out of control (so while they keep these numbers in check they also provide an economy).

Hunting also provides a food source, i have enough meat in my freezer thats worth in the shops for around $2000 (retail price). Why should i pay for meat thats no where as good quality when i can hunt it for free and get fresh quality meat.

People tend to forget how we got to this day and age, i hate slaughtering, but i enjoy hunting and theres a big difference between the two).

Sorry about the off topic btw

Sorry Ageo, more emphasis is required on the word "unnecessary". I totally agree, as long as what your hunting ain't about to disappear. I'm all for shootin rabbits, fox's even roo's, some species anyway, just not to the point where there's nothing left to hunt. Conservation goes pretty deep, from animal protection to eradication...

 

[nioka]

i don't approve of unnecessary hunting of intelligent species. whales have large brains, communicate with each other and form social groups, exhibiting obvious signs of intelligence..

Have you actually seen the size of a whales brain? I have seen plenty. They are not very big. They have no more intelligence than a cow or a sheep. Most animals communicate with one another, protect their young. and form social groups. They are just another animal, I admit they are big and spectacular and create a lot of interest because of that.The females have more sense than the males. If they were travelling together and the male was shot the female shot through like a Bondi tram. If the female was shot the male hung around and was bagged as well.
People at sea in small boats at night see them as a danger now because of the increasing numbers so they look at them differently. I have just spoken to a friend who has just returned in a yacht from Cairns and he said he had a problem, particularly at night, with whales that got in the way. Says they are much "tamer" than they used to be. He considers them the biggest danger now at sea. The law doesn't allow us to approach them but it is a one way deal.

 

[disarray]

They have no more intelligence than a cow or a sheep.

you will find plenty of opinions on both sides to support either argument. without more scientific analysis this point remains hung.

http://seashepherd.org/ocean_realm/ocean_realm_aut97.html

the following makes some interesting points though -

We willingly accept the idea of intelligence in a lifeform only if the intelligence displayed is on the same evolutionary wavelength as our own. Technology automatically indicates intelligence. An absence of technology translates into an absence of intelligence.

Dolphins and whales do not display intelligence in a fashion recognizable to this conditioned perception of what intelligence is, and we are blind to a broader definition of what intelligence can be.

Interspecies comparisons focus on the extent of lamination, the total cortical area, and the number and depth of neocortex convolutions. In addition, primary sensory processing relative to problem solving is a significant indicator; this can be described as associative ability. The association or connecting of ideas is a measurable skill: a rat's associative skill is measured at nine to one. This means that 90 percent of the brain is devoted to primary sensory projection, leaving only 10 percent for associative skills. A cat is one to one, A chimpanzee is one to three, and a human being is one to nine. We humans need only utilize 10 percent of our brains to operate our sensory organs.

The cetacean brain averages one to twenty-five and can range upward to one to forty. The reason for this is that the much larger supralimbic lobe is primarily association cortex. Unlike humans, in cetaceans sensory and motor function control is spread outside the supralimbic, leaving more brain area for associative purposes.

Humans have the rhinic, limbic, and supralimbic, with the neocortex covering the surface of the supralimbic. However, with cetaceans we see a radical evolutionary jump with the inclusion of a fourth segment. This is a fourth cortical lobe, giving a four-fold lamination that is morphologically the most significant differentiation between cetaceans and all other cranially evolved mammals, including humans. No other species has ever had four separate cortical lobes.

i read elsewhere though that maybe dolphins have large brains because they don't have REM sleep which means they need more room for connections we "houseclean" during the night. either way it is a fact that our knowledge of neural physiology is rudimentary at the moment, so we can hardly make broad sweeping statements about whether or not animals of the higher orders possess intelligence or not.

so until it becomes clearer i still think its ethically wrong to harvest animals which demonstrate evidence of higher intelligence, especially as it is not necessary for our survival to do so.

and it must be truly terrible for your yachting friend to have to share the entire ocean with another species. if it is truly a problem then i'm sure we can come up with an ingenious way to minimise any danger sailors may encounter with whales.

 

[Pat]

...and it must be truly terrible for your yachting friend to have to share the entire ocean with another species.

Not sure if Nokia has made reference to sharing the ocean, but a whale to a small yacht could be seen as a living iceberg
Anyway, save the whales, kill a fat chick...en.

 

[Ageo]

Sorry Ageo, more emphasis is required on the word "unnecessary". I totally agree, as long as what your hunting ain't about to disappear. I'm all for shootin rabbits, fox's even roo's, some species anyway, just not to the point where there's nothing left to hunt. Conservation goes pretty deep, from animal protection to eradication...

Mate i totally agree, eradication is not the answer although it is for some animals (feral animals mostly as they threaten the native species).

 

[Stan 101]

For all the fools out there who sucked it up I am aware that whales aren't technically fish.
WDW

Technically? LOL... Oh that's right, they both share aquatic environments...All the rest with regard to their physiology is just a technicality. hahaha


But for some perverse reason, I like you. You're "special" in the way only people who tell inhouse jokes and expect outsiders to understand can be.

 

[2020hindsight]

Stan 101
I have a friend just did this..
In fact in polynesia, he was scuba diving on one occasion ( near reef) when a massive shadow passed over - and sure enough, there was a whale.

http://www.swimwithwhales.com/
http://www.divevavau.com/
Click whale watching to see a photo of baby swimming over mother’s head
http://www.dolphinspiritofhawaii.com/tonga/maps.html