Lithium

[DrBourse]

Market Index info@marketindex.com.au ………….. Today's News 6/4/23.

Move over lithium - A new battery technology wants to change the game…….

CERENERGY Battery Project: An alternative salt nickel battery that does not require any lithium for grid storage……..



LYC's ADR's have dropped from abt US$7.00 to US$4.00 so far this year, ATC's plans prob explains that pullback, I can't imagine how much further it could fall in the ST.... Any TA atm is prob pretty useless..... maybe after the dust settles the worlds experts will come up with a call on the likes of LYC.....


Not sure where the LYC SP will eventually land - prob depends on what, if any, contingency plans Lithium Co's have made, as they all knew what was comming.....

I did try to warn everybody abt REE's in early 2022.....
ATC is only one of the many threats to the Lithium Industry...

Cheers....
DrB

 

[Sean K]

Market Index info@marketindex.com.au ………….. Today's News 6/4/23.

Move over lithium - A new battery technology wants to change the game…….

CERENERGY Battery Project: An alternative salt nickel battery that does not require any lithium for grid storage……..

View attachment 155450
View attachment 155453
LYC's ADR's have dropped from abt US$7.00 to US$4.00 so far this year, ATC's plans prob explains that pullback, I can't imagine how much further it could fall in the ST.... Any TA atm is prob pretty useless..... maybe after the dust settles the worlds experts will come up with a call on the likes of LYC.....

View attachment 155454
Not sure where the LYC SP will eventually land - prob depends on what, if any, contingency plans Lithium Co's have made, as they all knew what was comming.....

I did try to warn everybody abt REE's in early 2022.....
ATC is only one of the many threats to the Lithium Industry...

Cheers....
DrB

The ATC sodium battery is very interesting. Been looking at it. If they can do it to scale it will make a huge input to the grid scale battery solution. Something I was skeptical about with giant lithium batteries.

 

[Sean K]

Lithium still sinking. Might have been hard to believe that it could be falling to longer term support at 100k.

 

[waterbottle]

Meanwhile auto makers continue to throw money at Lithium startups.

Who's wrong? Investment bankers or car manufacturers?

 

[mullokintyre]

Meanwhile auto makers continue to throw money at Lithium startups.

Who's wrong? Investment bankers or car manufacturers?

The difference is, car makers at the moment and for some time into the future , actually need Lithium for their production of batteries to go into EV's.
The Investment bankers are using other peoples money to screw things their way.
Mick

 

[bk1]

Goldman Sachs Group Inc.’s head of commodities, Jeff Currie,

“It always ends in tears,” he said. “Going in and being involved in mining projects in places like Southern Africa, it requires an expertise that is very different than producing cars.”
Car companies will be better off sticking to their core competencies and reducing their exposure to commodity price swings through hedging, said Currie, who declined to comment on Tesla specifically.

 

[mullokintyre]

Goldman Sachs Group Inc.’s head of commodities, Jeff Currie,

“It always ends in tears,” he said. “Going in and being involved in mining projects in places like Southern Africa, it requires an expertise that is very different than producing cars.”
Car companies will be better off sticking to their core competencies and reducing their exposure to commodity price swings through hedging, said Currie, who declined to comment on Tesla specifically.

Hedging is fine for price, but the car makers such as tesla want supply, and most analysts suggest that the recent bout of inflation was due to supply constraints.
The problems with computer chips for car supply over the past few years has told them that if the supply aint there, no amount of hedging will help.
Mick

 

[rcw1]

Lithium still sinking. Might have been hard to believe that it could be falling to longer term support at 100k.

View attachment 155731View attachment 155732View attachment 155730

Hello @Sean K
You must have read rcw1 mind... re: Lithium today.

Goldman Sachs have bought into LTR. What a bunch of ...
Firstly, they publish negative sentiments on lithium then invest in the sector ha ha ha ha ha

Just saying ...

Wonder if ASIC have picked up on it yet ...

EDIT: a sentence ...
Kind regards
rcw1

 

[Sean K]

Hello @Sean K
You must have read rcw1 mind... re: Lithium today.

Goldman Sachs have bought into LTR. What a bunch of ...
Firstly, they publish negative sentiments on lithium then invest in the sector ha ha ha ha ha

Just saying ...

Wonder if ASIC have picked up on it yet ...

EDIT: a sentence ...
Kind regards
rcw1

There's certainly something fishy going on there.

 

[waterbottle]

The difference is, car makers at the moment and for some time into the future , actually need Lithium for their production of batteries to go into EV's.
The Investment bankers are using other peoples money to screw things their way.
Mick

True. So long as car makers remain hungry for lithium - and they are, as many continue to pivot into the EV market - there is going to be demand.
The predictions by GS et al were always going to materialise given the run up in lithium prices. But to think lithium is going to keep plummeting when the market has fundamentally changed and there is now legislated demand for the product is, IMO, short sighted.

I think we will see consolidation in the lithium market as not all miners are equal. North American and Australian suppliers will IMO attract a premium given supply chain stability and quality of product.
South American suppliers are susceptible to volatile governments with a leftist agenda hoping to nationalise mines.
African projects are a hit and miss (same for rare earths) with poor infrastructure and unreliable governance.

The result, IMO, is that all this theoretical supply that should have come to market, won't. And car manufacturers will be left with few mines to choose from. Hence why some of the bigger manufacturers are already starting to invest in mining projects to secure supply! (Why bother if market was going to ve oversupplied?)

Granted, no one can predict what technology would look like. Sodium batteries may displace lithium. But the and was said for betamax. And that also ignores the time frame required to test, implement and mass produce said batteries to get to the point where lithium batteries are at right now.

 

[Boggo]

Hello @Sean K
You must have read rcw1 mind... re: Lithium today.

Goldman Sachs have bought into LTR. What a bunch of ...
Firstly, they publish negative sentiments on lithium then invest in the sector ha ha ha ha ha

Just saying ...

Wonder if ASIC have picked up on it yet ...

EDIT: a sentence ...
Kind regards
rcw1

They do it all the time.
A fellow trader has tracked their activity and announcements over a year or so.
They are constantly having an influence to suit their purpose.

If State Street are involved then you will find that the buying and selling (shorting) go hand in hand with GS forecasts.

Have a look at where and how State Street seem to have impeccable timing with GS commentary !!
Expect another announcement to the market from State Street in the next few days on the Lithium stocks that they are involved with.

LTR is just one of many examples.

 

[InsvestoBoy]

Hedging is fine for price, but the car makers such as tesla want supply, and most analysts suggest that the recent bout of inflation was due to supply constraints.
The problems with computer chips for car supply over the past few years has told them that if the supply aint there, no amount of hedging will help.
Mick

You do realise that hedges are literally a contract for future supply to the hedger, right?

 

[mullokintyre]

You do realise that hedges are literally a contract for future supply to the hedger, right?

Really! Who would have thought!
Mick

 

[InsvestoBoy]

Really! Who would have thought!
Mick

So why do you think "no amount of hedging will help"?

 

[mullokintyre]

So why do you think "no amount of hedging will help"?

Geez, I am not sure if I can help you there, but I will give it a go.
The premise was that the car maker wants the lithium, they want supply.
Without supply, no batteries, no cars, everything grinds to a halt.
I said, that " if the supply aint there, no amount of hedging will help."

1. I suggested that in buying a lithium mine that produces, the car maker guarantees supply for their industry, regardless of price.
Which is want they want. They can control supply.
2. Or you could hedge, but that does not guarantee supply, only price. Force majeure can be be called, or some other event can intervene to not allow the hedge to be completed.
3. Rather than hedging, a car company would be better off signing futures contracts for delivery, but even then there is no guarntee that the contract can be fulfilled every time.
Does any of that help?
Mick

 

[InsvestoBoy]

Geez, I am not sure if I can help you there, but I will give it a go.
The premise was that the car maker wants the lithium, they want supply.
Without supply, no batteries, no cars, everything grinds to a halt.
I said, that " if the supply aint there, no amount of hedging will help."

1. I suggested that in buying a lithium mine that produces, the car maker guarantees supply for their industry, regardless of price.
Which is want they want. They can control supply.
2. Or you could hedge, but that does not guarantee supply, only price. Force majeure can be be called, or some other event can intervene to not allow the hedge to be completed.
3. Rather than hedging, a car company would be better off signing futures contracts for delivery, but even then there is no guarntee that the contract can be fulfilled every time.
Does any of that help?
Mick

I don't even know where to start, have a nice day.

 

[mullokintyre]

A new and exciting development for lithium, Chile has announced plans to nationalise all Lithium mines.
Always ends well.
From Zero Hedge

The weaponization of commodities in a world that is increasingly turning multipolar and where legacy trade links and commercial bridges are burning down metaphorically (and in some cases literally) is accelerating.

Chile's President Gabriel Boric stunned the world on Thursday when he said he would nationalize the country's lithium industry, the world's second largest producer of the metal essential in electric vehicle batteries, to boost its economy and protect its environment.

The shock move in the country with the world's largest lithium reserves would in time transfer control of Chile's vast lithium operations from industry giants SQM and Albemarle to a separate state-owned company.
Future lithium contracts would only be issued as public-private partnerships with state control, he said, hoping to extract far more profits from lithium demand by EV giants such as Tesla and well, everyone else these days.

The government would not terminate current contracts, but hoped companies would be open to state participation before they expire, he said, without naming Albemarle and SQM, the world's No.1 and No.2 lithium producers respectively. In other words, they can volunteer to hand over control of their assets. SQM's contract is set to expire in 2030 and Albemarle's in 2043.

There were ru8mours of felines cavorting in the pigeon specific regions.
Mick

 

[waterbottle]

Thank you communism

https://www.mining.com/top-stocks-plummet-after-chile-brings-lithium-industry-under-state-control/

 

[frugal.rock]

Don't forget Mehico also.

Mexico's Lopez Obrador orders ministry to step up lithium nationalization

Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador on Saturday signed a decree handing over responsibility for lithium reserves to the energy ministry, after nationalizing lithium deposits last April.

www.reuters.com

 

[peter2]

Check the effect of this decision on the charts of ALB and SQM (main lithium producers in Chile). Another reason for ALB to want to buy near lithium producers in Aust (LTR).