Tyranny

[wayneL]

Are we living under tyranny? Or is all this necessary temporarily and we will get our liberties back in due course?

Somehow I doubt it.

Has the Orwellian dystopia actually arrived, Komrades?

 

[sptrawler]

Well I guess it goes back to the old saying "scientia potentia est" , which means knowledge is power, or information is power.
When the information is controlled by a centrally concentrated few, they can control and manipulate the information, I guess that is why some sectors of government are wondering how to get a handle on google etc.
Certainly interesting times, Trumps destruction will have highlighted the problem, to those who could just as easily be destroyed IMO.
So I guess it is just another phase we are going through.

 

[wayneL]

 

[Knobby22]

Unfortunately, the autocrats have a reasonable chance at some stage be able to remove the conservatives and liberals in a night of knives and set up a dictatorship, to the joy of China and Russia.

History Repeats. We have had the night of broken glass in a sense already.

I am sure this can be turned around however it will take the Republicans leaders to go the hard way. it is up to the true Republicans to ensure that they work in the countries interest to heal the country and ensure that the Presidents they offer have their values.

Whilst we have people brainwashed into thinking the Democrats are communists (I note Konmrade mention above) due to extensive propaganda supported by internal and international vested interests then this cannot be avoided.

The USA now that at the present moment probably 25% of the population who would have supported the recent coup attempts (direct action, using the defense forces (who wouldn't do as Trump requested) and trying to get Republican States to rig the voting.

Among the Republicans there is still a large percentage of elected officials who believe in the American Dream of Democracy but another generation of letting the extremists get their way will end this. The next potential dictator will plan this much better than Trump.

 

[wayneL]

Unfortunately, the autocrats have a reasonable chance at some stage be able to remove the conservatives and liberals in a night of knives and set up a dictatorship, to the joy of China and Russia.

History Repeats. We have had the night of broken glass in a sense already.

I am sure this can be turned around however it will take the Republicans leaders to go the hard way. it is up to the true Republicans to ensure that they work in the countries interest to heal the country and ensure that the Presidents they offer have their values.

Whilst we have people brainwashed into thinking the Democrats are communists (I note Konmrade mention above) due to extensive propaganda supported by internal and international vested interests then this cannot be avoided.

The USA now that at the present moment probably 25% of the population who would have supported the recent coup attempts (direct action, using the defense forces (who wouldn't do as Trump requested) and trying to get Republican States to rig the voting.

Among the Republicans there is still a large percentage of elected officials who believe in the American Dream of Democracy but another generation of letting the extremists get their way will end this. The next potential dictator will plan this much better than Trump.

So many good points Knobby, kudos.

Yet so many BS points.

 

[wayneL]

Some great discussion from one of our local Brissy lads

 

[sptrawler]

Unfortunately, the autocrats have a reasonable chance at some stage be able to remove the conservatives and liberals in a night of knives and set up a dictatorship, to the joy of China and Russia.

History Repeats. We have had the night of broken glass in a sense already.

I am sure this can be turned around however it will take the Republicans leaders to go the hard way. it is up to the true Republicans to ensure that they work in the countries interest to heal the country and ensure that the Presidents they offer have their values.

Whilst we have people brainwashed into thinking the Democrats are communists (I note Konmrade mention above) due to extensive propaganda supported by internal and international vested interests then this cannot be avoided.

The USA now that at the present moment probably 25% of the population who would have supported the recent coup attempts (direct action, using the defense forces (who wouldn't do as Trump requested) and trying to get Republican States to rig the voting.

Among the Republicans there is still a large percentage of elected officials who believe in the American Dream of Democracy but another generation of letting the extremists get their way will end this. The next potential dictator will plan this much better than Trump.

As I've said on numerous occasions, I have no understanding of U.S politics and have no interest in learning about it, can't be bothered.
So I look at it from a holistic perspective, whether people like it or not Trump has switched on the light bulb, a lot of people will be saying "you know what, we are too dependent on China, we are being screwed".
Trump is mega rich, so in reality the pantomime doesn't really bother him, he will still be rich afterwards.
From what I've read, many Presidents rely on their terms in office, for their later wealth.
So IMO getting rid of Trump probably hasn't achieved much, many more people will be questioning, why are we closing down and outsourcing our jobs.
Which IMO is a good thing, we have lifted China out of poverty, it is time they stopped trying to put us into poverty. ?
I think if the new U.S government doesn't continue with the repatriation of value jobs, the discontent will build and really become a huge issue for the U.S and in that, what affects the U.S affects us.
After all, as a P.M once said, we are the white trash of Asia.

 

[dutchie]

As I've said on numerous occasions, I have no understanding of U.S politics and have no interest in learning about it, can't be bothered.
So I look at it from a holistic perspective, whether people like it or not Trump has switched on the light bulb, a lot of people will be saying "you know what, we are too dependent on China, we are being screwed".
Trump is mega rich, so in reality the pantomime doesn't really bother him, he will still be rich afterwards.
From what I've read, many Presidents rely on their terms in office, for their later wealth.
So IMO getting rid of Trump probably hasn't achieved much, many more people will be questioning, why are we closing down and outsourcing our jobs.
Which IMO is a good thing, we have lifted China out of poverty, it is time they stopped trying to put us into poverty. ?
I think if the new U.S government doesn't continue with the repatriation of value jobs, the discontent will build and really become a huge issue for the U.S and in that, what affects the U.S affects us.
After all, as a P.M once said, we are the white trash of Asia.

Don't bother learning the current US political system as it's all but gone.

 

[sptrawler]

Don't bother learning the current US political system as it's all but gone.

Well the way it is going, it certainly appears to be, all the western governments appear to losing control of media stage and control of the monetary systems.
it appears from the outside looking in, the media mediums are controlling the stage and rhetoric, while bitcoin the multinationals and electronic money transfer platforms are controlling the monetary agenda.
So from a plebs point of view it all appears to be unravelling.

As Jack Ma is finding out, eventually the system has to take over control, if not chaos takes over and the system fails.

 

[SirRumpole]

While we still live in a democracy I don't think it can be said we are living under tyranny.

But yes, there are constraints on what we are allowed to see or read and increasing encroachments on our freedoms via various National Security Acts and politically correct Legislation like the Racial Villification Act where giving offence is a criminal act.

We could well be the frog in the saucepan with the heat slowly being turned up. Unfortunately the so called protectors of Freedom; ie the Coalition are the worst offenders in taking away our freedoms. The other side has allowed them to do it.

Watch out.

 

[Knobby22]

Some great discussion from one of our local Brissy lads

Exactly my point. You make it succinctly.

Herd the sheep, get them in line, they are in a tribe of good against the godless communists who also run child sex rings. Set up a dictatorship. Of course it will look a bit like democracy, all dictatorships including Russia's have elections.

Oh, some people are protesting that the election was corrupted, obviously communists, gee some are protesting within the party, luckily we found they were secretly communists and they have been removed. The media is biased, we will fix that.
Peace at last.

 

[sptrawler]

While we still live in a democracy I don't think it can be said we are living under tyranny.

But yes, there are constraints on what we are allowed to see or read and increasing encroachments on our freedoms via various National Security Acts and politically correct Legislation like the Racial Villification Act where giving offence is a criminal act.

We could well be the frog in the saucepan with the heat slowly being turned up. Unfortunately the so called protectors of Freedom; ie the Coalition are the worst offenders in taking away our freedoms. The other side has allowed them to do it.

Watch out.

Agree with you completely Rumpy, the only problem is, the "other side" is completely subjective.
That is what the media is controlling, who they decide is the "other side" and that is why people need to think past the headline, past the spin and look at the obvious, which is the outcome.
Many find that way too hard, that's why they keep dropping the education standards. ?

 

[sptrawler]

We could well be the frog in the saucepan with the heat slowly being turned up. Unfortunately the so called protectors of Freedom; ie the Coalition are the worst offenders in taking away our freedoms. The other side has allowed them to do it.

Watch out.

That is an interesting statement, that you keep throwing in, can you actually stump a few up?
I find in W.A, it seems to be Labor who get through controversial legislation, the latest being banning radar detectors.
Not that I agree with radar detectors, or dislike the W.A Labor Party, far from it I think McGowan has done a great job, but they certainly have taken away freedoms and from what i've read Dan Andrews seems to have pushed the boat out.
I just find it interesting, that it seems to be natural precursor to any anti government comment, that it has to be qualified that the coalition are the worst.
Just wondering.

 

[SirRumpole]

That is an interesting statement, that you keep throwing in, can you actually stump a few up?
I find in W.A, it seems to be Labor who get through controversial legislation, the latest being banning radar detectors.
Not that I agree with radar detectors, or dislike the W.A Labor Party, far from it I think McGowan has done a great job, but they certainly have taken away freedoms and from what i've read Dan Andrews seems to have pushed the boat out.
I just find it interesting, that it seems to be natural precursor to any anti government comment, that it has to be qualified that the coalition are the worst.
Just wondering.

Well, here's one.

Peter Dutton Proposes Prison for Refusing to Provide Passwords

The Home Affairs Minister is proposing new laws which would make it a crime to refuse to provide mobile phone and computer passwords to authorities.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

There are a lot of other stories around about what this bloke wants to do. He's very dangerous imo.

 

[dutchie]

 

[sptrawler]

Well, here's one.

Peter Dutton Proposes Prison for Refusing to Provide Passwords

The Home Affairs Minister is proposing new laws which would make it a crime to refuse to provide mobile phone and computer passwords to authorities.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

There are a lot of other stories around about what this bloke wants to do. He's very dangerous imo.

One of the worst cases of government intervention, in my life time, was when the military was used by the government to strike break. Most unusual for Labor to actively destroy the right to strike. So in reality it isn't a one side of politics thing, it is just presented that way by the media, funny that.
It is an interesting article and a raw piece of history for a lot of people.

30 years since the 1989 pilots’ dispute - The Socialist

Reading Time: 10 minutes 30 years ago, Australia was gripped by industrial unrest that caused major disruption to domestic air travel. Airline pilots squared off against their employers. ...

thesocialist.org.au

:
From the article:

30 years ago, Australia was gripped by industrial unrest that caused major disruption to domestic air travel. Airline pilots squared off against their employers. It was presented as a battle over pay, but really it represented much more.

The airlines were backed to the hilt by the Hawke Labor government, the right-wing media, and unfortunately, the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU). Against all odds, the pilots put up a hard fight, but in the end, they were beaten by an unholy alliance that was hell bent on taking Australian capitalism in a new direction.

The 1989 pilots dispute was one of the most expensive Australia had ever seen. The government and the airlines spent hundreds of millions of dollars to not only win the battle, but to crush the pilot’s union – the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP).

During the dispute the government called a national emergency and deployed armed forces and planes to fly commercial routes. Hundreds of scab pilots from overseas had their visas fast tracked, and their wages paid by the government in an attempt to undermine the union’s campaign.

 

[SirRumpole]

One of the worst cases of government intervention, in my life time, was when the military was used by the government to strike break. Most unusual for Labor to actively destroy the right to strike.

I don't consider that intervention socialist, communist or whatever else you want to call it.

People were being stranded with no way of getting home and the government simply provided a temporary emergency service to get people home.

There was no question of this being a permanent action. The pilots still had a right to strike, the dispute was settled and things went back to normal.

The government was just looking after the people in my view.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't consider that intervention socialist, communist or whatever else you want to call it.

People were being stranded with no way of getting home and the government simply provided a temporary emergency service to get people home.

There was no question of this being a permanent action. The pilots still had a right to strike, the dispute was settled and things went back to normal.

The government was just looking after the people in my view.

They weren't stranded, there were other domestic carriers and other forms of national transport, the pilots were broken by the government using military aircraft and from memory the airlines were not allowed to re employ any pilot who had been involved in the dispute.
If the coalition had tried that the country would have gone out on strike.
But I guess it depends on what you see as fair and reasonable from a political party, that is why I'm a very middle of the road swinging voter, I know either side can do both positive and negative things.
I don't call it communist or socialist, I just call it strike breaking, which is unheard of from a Labor government. When Thatcher did it in the U.K the unions were appalled, when Bob does it here, as you show he is applauded. Just saying judge both sides on performance, not perception.

 

[SirRumpole]

They weren't stranded, there were other domestic carriers and other forms of national transport, the pilots were broken by the government using military aircraft and from memory the airlines were not allowed to re employ any pilot who had been involved in the dispute.
If the coalition had tried that the country would have gone out on strike.
But I guess it depends on what you see as fair and reasonable from a political party, that is why I'm a very middle of the road swinging voter, I know either side can do both positive and negative things.
I don't call it communist or socialist, I just call it strike breaking, which is unheard of from a Labor government. When Thatcher did it in the U.K the unions were appalled, when Bob does it here, as you show he is applauded. Just saying judge both sides on performance, not perception.

That was 30 years ago.

What do you think of what Dutton wants to do now ?

 

[orr]

That was 30 years ago.

What do you think of what Dutton wants to do now ?

Exactly Rumpole...
the 20 years is of inerest because that's how long Government can hide behind the Cabinet paper diclosure law. Down from 30..

And to get things more up to date the Secret prosecution and Secret goaling of witness J under our Serurity Laws is one issue of many of immediate concern to people who are upto date on what's going on with government over reach.

Laws intituted under Howards government allowed these steps toward Tyranny...