Wage Rises

[Rafa]

I think tech/A you have hit the nail on the head!!!

It has to be a two way street... and the best bit about that is everyone WINS! If you have an unhappy worker, the worker suffers and the employer does too...

And given the state of today's economy, its fair to say that so far, it has been a WIN WIN... the laws may need a few tweaks to give employers a bit more flexibility, longer probation periods, lesser evidence needed to carry out sackings, but thats about it... no need for drastic changes

 

[krisbarry]

It still begs the question: Would you work on Xmas day, Easter Sunday, Australia day etc for the ordinary rate of pay?

New employees may not have the choice but to accept signing an AWA that forgoes the right to refuse to work, and also forgoes the right to penatly rates, and will have to accept a flat rate of pay, no matter the day or the time.

 

[Milk Man]

It still begs the question: Would you work on Xmas day, Easter Sunday, Australia day etc for the ordinary rate of pay?

New employees may not have the choice but to accept signing an AWA that forgoes the right to refuse to work, and also forgoes the right to penatly rates, and will have to accept a flat rate of pay, no matter the day or the time.

If you dont agree with it then dont sign it. I am an employer as well and finding staff aint easy; people dont need to agree to stuff they dont like the sound of.

 

[krisbarry]

New employees will have no choice but to sign them, or they will not be employed, simple as that!

The new IR laws do not really apply to existing workers, unless you want to swap over to an AWA.

 

[tech/a]

Kris.

Everyone has a choice.
If you are in the hospitality industry than chances are you'll have to work Xmas.
If your a police officer that could also happen. It comes with the job.
If you dont wish to work holidays --dont work in industries where it maybe required.
If you dont wish to work on a flat rate negotiate a different package---thats the whole idea.

Sure a new employee may not be able to broker the "Best" deal.

BUT After 12 mths a valued employee will be able to negotiate a great deal.

There is a lot of short sightedness on this issue.

 

[krisbarry]

Short sightness, unsure of that.

I guess we are looking at it from two different sides, yet again, funny how that keeps happening. LOL

I am looking at it from the employees point of view and yourself from the employers point of view.

Employers in many of these areas will struggle to fill shifts on weekends/nights/public holdidays if penatly rates are slashed. So as an employer I am sure you can understand that.

 

[krisbarry]

I choose to work weekends,public holidays, and week nights as I can bring in an excellent wage for doing very little. Just working smarter, not harder!

I like working these hours too as there is less management prancing around, making sure they are king-dick of the place, and there is always less crap to deal with.

But if someone wants to kiss arse with the manager and work ordinary hours so be it.

But if you are a new employee in a new workplace, hold onto your hats with these IR changes, as it looks like you will be short changed on payday.

 

[Rafa]

i don't know about short sightedness Tech...

i am interested in your thoughts on what i wrote earlier...

Its mass consumption that is fueling the world economy, not a lot of consumption by a few rich people...... (that is the biggest irony of it all).... and its this mass consumption that is making the rich richer... (so its actually better to make everyone better off!!!)

in my opinion, trying to squeeze the life out of workers is short sightedness... making people fear of loosing jobs at a moments notice increase the chances of people choosing the save and invest rather than spend... which is contractionary and will eventually lead to a recession...

(PS: cutting the red tape around corporations law, real tax reform, etc are lot better ways to attract companies to Australia... and then everyone wins!)

 

[krisbarry]

Tech/a you may be a great boss to work for, and well done, but for every great boss their are 10 others ready to exploit workers, this will just make it easier to do.

Mates of mine are already on individual AWA's and when they take annual leave they get no leave loading. They also get no overtime payments, just time in lieu. They also work on 24 hour 7 day a week rosters. Their rates of pay a pretty crappy too. I reckon they would have been better off in a union and under one contract for all workers.

Plenty of horrid stories coming through on 60 minutes, Today Tonight and A Current Affair about workers being forced to sign indvidual contracts and finding out they are worse off than the bloke who stands next to them that got in the system a few months earlier. Now how is that a fairer system?

 

[tech/a]

Rafa

I dont disagree with anything you have written.
Consumption is the driving force in all economies.
No arguement there.
People position themselves to take advantage of growth differently.
Many dont bother or find it to hard.These are perhaps the ones who are afraid of Work Place agreements.Those that have the mentality of "Them V's Us." This is short sightedness on their part.

Flip the coin and Employers who want the world but give little are short sighted on the employment side.
Thats what negotiation is all about.
those who are best versed on Both sides will benifit most.As time goes by each will understand and become---through necessity better and better.

Those who use fear or who fail to work toward Mutually rewarding agreements will fall by the way. Both Employees and Employers.

Opportunity and CHOICE will always be available---how you identify,use and implement that opportunity and CHOICE will always be the point of discussion.

There is no perfect outcome only that which you percieve as best for you.

Why would you accept anything less?---be you an Employer or Employee.

Rafa hope Ive addressed those issues.

 

[Rafa]

Tech, I fully agree with your statements...
And that is exactly the way I look at life...

However, I am certain, the people who think like this are in the minority!

My concern is... what do we do about them...

I mean... social justice is all about looking after this group of people...
or should we just let them fall by the wayside.

I am also concerned that education... one of the surest ways of taking that next step (now i know there are other ways to do it too...) is also getting more and more expensive....

Essentially, what we are going to see are people who are essentially slaves...
They have to work, not to get ahead, but just to get by, becuase...
1. they have massive house mortgages...
2. they have massive HECS debts to pay off...
3. or even worse, they are put off studying becuase of the massive costs...

This is the path I see this legislation pushing us down... (and all other previous legislation put forward in the last few years...)

And we all know how this ends up ofcourse......

 

[krisbarry]

Well said Rafa, we are slaves trapped in a system that is costing more and more, and only a few will ever escape and head upwards, the rest will just fall by the wayside. Housing and education are the two evils I see at the moment.

Education and housing are becoming too expensive for some, so are we are just going to breed a dumb society, who rent as they cannot afford to better themselves?

 

[tech/a]

Rafa and Kris.

If you can identify these problems then you must have an idea,theory or hypothesis toward a solution.

An alternative?

Now I'd like to see that!

 

[Bloveld]

As a union member I am losing the right to silence. 20 years busting my arse in mining and construction and I am considered to be on par with a drug traffiker. Murderers and rapists have more rights than me.

 

[Bloveld]

New employees will have no choice but to sign them, or they will not be employed, simple as that!

The new IR laws do not really apply to existing workers, unless you want to swap over to an AWA.

Wrong. With the near impossibility of accessing the new protective laws it is easy to sack anybody who wont sign an AWA.

 

[tech/a]

So there are no alternatives?
The Status Quo to remain?
Bloveld--why not have your union rep on hand?
Ever tried to get out of a union?
2 of my guys were sued for non payement of dues even though they had requested cancellation of membership. What really is the fear here?

 

[krisbarry]

What is wrong with the current system? Very Little!

The Australian Economy is booming along, why change it?

Workers are about to lose rights, money, and will eventually lose faith and hope.

I see an unhappy workforce in the very near future, and a very un-productive Australia ahead.

 

[Bloveld]

The issue is the erosion of rights.
The plan is to get rid of awards.
Get rid of unions.
Get rid of trades.
Free up immigration laws so temporary workers can work here.
Get rid of safety and conditions.
All this is happening right now.
How this is going to benefit the average working person will have to be explained to me.

 

[tech/a]

Right here we have a perfect example of plenty of critisism but no real suggestions. Directionless-----

All around us we have 3 massive economies growing at amazing rates.
China,India,Asia.
To be competitive and to serve this growth we need to be at the cutting edge of industrial relations with an opportunity for both Employer and Employee alike----never seen before.

There WILL be change--massive change and not only in our work places.

Employees WILL have the upper hand--particularly those with any type of skill.
China,India,and Asia will have an insatiable demand for skilled people.In the construction industry they already have.
If employers want quality employees both will need to negotiate win win packages.

Times and policy IS going to change---Take advantage of what is available--use it to your benifit.

Some will some wont. You DO have a choice

This is it from me on this topic as it is becoming circular.

 

[Milk Man]

What is wrong with the current system? Very Little!

The Australian Economy is booming along, why change it?

Workers are about to lose rights, money, and will eventually lose faith and hope.

I see an unhappy workforce in the very near future, and a very un-productive Australia ahead.

Why should I have to go to court and pay thousands even if I am right in sacking someone? They pay nothing because the deadbeat can get access to legal aid and I have to wear the costs no matter the outcome. Wheres the justice in that?

That is what is wrong with the system; a massive wasting of government and employers money!