Bill Stacy?

[OneDayWealth]

Guys check out this thread I just found on the net

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Onedaywealth-t238080.html

Aside from the sheer scammy nature of the website, check out Bills trading record for the start of 2009 (post #7).

From examining the linked thread, I would put Bills R:R at 1:1 or less. I am starting to wonder how it's possible all of his students were trading sane risk levels of *1000 options with a $20,000 starting balance.

At first I was wondering how Bill had continued to trade like this without blowing up, but at $5,000 a pop to "train" in his "course", I no longer have any questions.

You (also) have no idea what you're talking about. You are making wild and incorrect assumptions with only a small fraction of the story to go on.

How do you feel about people who offer NOTHING BUT VIDEOS for 7k, 11k or more? I expect you are horrified! Now, take away any personal support and no talking at all with the instructor and you have the real value of what's out there. At least I care about my members and speak to them often for hours on end and help them all day long if they need it.

You need to get out more buddy. If someone could show me how to make up to and over $2,000 a week (and in many case a day!) I'd pay them a HELL of a lot more than $5,000. Just because you're a cheap **** who wants everything for free doesn't mean the general population is the same. Some people can make value judgments, others can't. You clearly fall in the latter group. That's ok. Fine for you. Fortunately people value real information (not just theory) a little higher than you and this world can keep going around. God forbid you made the value judgments for us all...lol We'd all be working in factories cutting off fish heads for $5 an hour.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Way more actually.

What like $300,000 for example?

 

[prawn_86]

At least I care about my members and speak to them often for hours on end and help them all day long if they need it.
.

I thought you said you couldnt offer personal advice. So how much time can you actually spend with them if they have a question?

 

[OneDayWealth]

Pfft. You're trying to throw up a smokescreen Bill.

Apart from being nonsense, it doesn't take anything away from what I said, that your system has massive inappropriate delta risk and massive unnecessary contest risk.

Them's the inescapable facts.

I don't really care what you think Wayne, you are wrong, you don't know it all and you keep proving that to everyone. My record stands and you just can't stomach that someone out there knows how to put something together that you can't understand. You've made that clear. lol go away dude, you're getting boring.

 

[wayneL]

I don't really care what you think Wayne, you are wrong, you don't know it all and you keep proving that to everyone. My record stands and you just can't stomach that someone out there knows how to put something together that you can't understand. You've made that clear. lol go away dude, you're getting boring.

Can't understand?

Let's deal in mathematics Bill.

Prove to me mathematically that options, delta for delta, are not the least efficient means of daytrading.

 

[OneDayWealth]

I thought you said you couldnt offer personal advice. So how much time can you actually spend with them if they have a question?

Oh FOR ****S SAKE dude! Really? I told you I have never once told anyone when to get into or out of a trade. Does that mean I can't help them get the mechanics right? Or talking to them about how to set up their computer or pointing them to TA tubes or courses or a myriad of other ways I can help them.

One minute I'm not helping, the next I'm helping to much...El Oh ****ing El!

Seriously? Get a grip. You're starting to look as stupid as the rest now. Have some self respect.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Can't understand?

Let's deal in mathematics Bill.

Prove to me mathematically that options, delta for delta, are not the least efficient means of daytrading.

Lol, you really are desperate now. How the **** could anyone answer that? if you're going to ask stupid questions like that then really dude, just go watch TV and do us all a favour.

 

[nulla nulla]

For you to have a defamation case you would need to have a reputation in the first place....which is questionable by the low class comments you have subjected ASF posters to (i.e I'll rip your ****ing head off).

LAW:
"If the published material lowers the person's reputation in the eyes of members of the community".....i would argue you had no reputation to begin with.

Don't you also have to demonstrate the you have also suffered damages as a result of the alleged defamation? This would be hard to prove in respect of the ASF posts as Mr Stacy has already posted to the effect that people reading this thread have been only to happy to sign on for his course.....

 

[wayneL]

Lol, you really are desperate now. How the **** could anyone answer that? if you're going to ask stupid questions like that then really dude, just go watch TV and do us all a favour.

I've already shown the inefficiencies mathematically.

You say I'm wrong, but refuse to prove... actually, you tacitly say you can't prove it.

Which is true, you can't, because options are the least efficient means to daytrade.

Case closed unless you can prove otherwise.

 

[sinner]

You (also) have no idea what you're talking about. You are making wild and incorrect assumptions with only a small fraction of the story to go on.

Well gee Bill, we'd sure love to see audited broker statements that give the "full story to go on" (sic), but since onedaywealth.com no longer exists, I wonder where exactly I'd get the full story? Happy to eat my hat.

How do you feel about people who offer NOTHING BUT VIDEOS for 7k, 11k or more? I expect you are horrified! Now, take away any personal support and no talking at all with the instructor and you have the real value of what's out there. At least I care about my members and speak to them often for hours on end and help them all day long if they need it.

Is this some sort of Stalin was better than Hitler argument? That's...actually...that's predictable from you Bill.

You need to get out more buddy. If someone could show me how to make up to and over $2,000 a week (and in many case a day!) I'd pay them a HELL of a lot more than $5,000.

Ah yes, the crux of the issue. I must be a fool to not participate in the deal of a lifetime.

Just because you're a cheap **** who wants everything for free doesn't mean the general population is the same.

Dear wayne and prawn, is this not a clear example of slander?

Some people can make value judgments, others can't. You clearly fall in the latter group. That's ok. Fine for you. Fortunately people value real information (not just theory) a little higher than you and this world can keep going around. God forbid you made the value judgments for us all...lol We'd all be working in factories cutting off fish heads for $5 an hour.

Hilarious irony. You realise I'm responsible for maintaining the real world internet infrastructure you use every day, an actual service which allows "this world to keep going around" (sic)...a service I provide to the the Australian Government/Taxpayer after paying for my own real information education.

Meanwhile, if you vanished tomorrow, who would notice Bill? A options bunch of MMs on the ASX might wonder where their cash cow has gone, but I doubt it. There is always another sucker, right?

 

[OneDayWealth]

This has got to stop now. You are just poking me with a stick now to wank yourselves for pleasure. I've said just about everything I could say. I day trade options. I've created a layout, some tools and a method that works. They are the facts. Get over it.

I have a life to live - so have you. I've answered all your stupid (and some not so stupid) questions time and time again. I have other things to do. This is now beyond a joke.

Believe me or not, I don't really care and nor does anyone else. My methods have stood the test of time and from the looks of it you can't... just can't believe that someone can come up with something new (not that 7 years of trading is new) so there's really no point in me just saying the same things over and over and over again. I have nothing more to prove here.

It's been real...

 

[wayneL]

This has got to stop now. You are just poking me with a stick now to wank yourselves for pleasure. I've said just about everything I could say. I day trade options. I've created a layout, some tools and a method that works. They are the facts. Get over it.

I have a life to live - so have you. I've answered all your stupid (and some not so stupid) questions time and time again. I have other things to do. This is now beyond a joke.

Believe me or not, I don't really care and nor does anyone else. My methods have stood the test of time and from the looks of it you can't... just can't believe that someone can come up with something new (not that 7 years of trading is new) so there's really no point in me just saying the same things over and over and over again. I have nothing more to prove here.

It's been real...

More sidestepping and unsubstantiated claims.

Is this a tacit admission that my contention is correct?

 

[sinner]

Bill Stacy Financial Innovation:

* Moving average signals
* Long options
* Trade with leverage
* Trade intraday
* Trade the least liquid market available

It's all so new! I can't keep up!

 

[barney]

This thread has been both interesting and at times amusing, but is now to the point of becoming a bit sad ....

I am neither pro-Bill nor anti-Bill ...... He has made claims ... his claims have been questioned by many traders .... some of those traders I have "unlimited' respect for

In all fairness to Bill (regardless of whether his methods seem good/sensible/rational etc etc) ......

Can I offer the suggestion, that Bill, over the next few weeks, place some live trades (paper trading is fine with me, as long as the calls are made "at the time" ... the essence of the method will be shown regardless) ...

.... so that a better understanding of his method can be assertained .....

If the trades (lets say a minimum sample of 20 trades) stack up, and Bill makes money ... perhaps we should walk away and leave Bill to his business, and accept that Bill may have found an edge .....

.... If the opposite happens and the trades are "noticeably" negative, maybe there is cause for further interogation ..... Whether that interrogation will prove anything useful is questionable from where I sit.

Anyway, just a thought ... personally I don't really mind one way or the other ..... I personally don't trade options cause they write the rules in Swahili

 

[basilio]

Well Barney that was very creative !! Put up or shut !

It would be very interesting to see someone like Bill Stacy demonstrate over a period of 3 months how effectively his system worked. But frankly I just can't see it happening. If he was that good I do think he would be making money hand over fist himself.

But lets see if Bill is willing to offer some sort of objective practical proof of his system.

 

[wayneL]

Barney

To me it's not about whether Bill is profitable or not. He very well could be, don't know, don't care really (but would be interesting to see some live trades).

My concern is twofold,

1/the massive position size

2/massive contest risk

Lets look at the example several pages earlier where he purportedly trade 27 x 1000 share contracts = 27,000 shares of underlying, with a delta of approx 0.5 giving a total number of 13,500 deltas.

The bid ask spread is typically about 5 - 8 cents... lets say 5 cents to be generous.

That is 27,000 x $0.05 = $1,350

This means that if the share did not move and he exited, it would have resulted in a $1,350 loss PLUS commission.

It also means that the underlying has to move > 10 cents just to break even (remember our 0.5 delta)

That's a massive impost to overcome in a daytrading system.

Now compare that to Shares or CFDs where to gain the same 13500 deltas, we only need 13500 shares with a spread of typically 1 cent.

That's $135 plus commission contest risk.

The options are 10 TIMES more expensive to trade in terms of contest risk.

Daytrading sytems, if positively expectant :, are not greatly so, because you never get huge outliers.

They rely on trade frequency to make money.

Maybe Bill is a good enough trader to overcome 10x contest risk, maybe not, but are the people he teaches?

I would bet London to a brick and Mombasa to a melon that very very few can overcome this.

S you see it's not about Bill being profitable, it's about Bill teaching about the most inefficient day trading modality currently available... and charging money for it.

 

[Trembling Hand]

:iagree:


And that is the whole tread in a nutshell.

 

[ColB]

This thread has been both interesting and at times amusing, but is now to the point of becoming a bit sad ....

I am neither pro-Bill nor anti-Bill ...... He has made claims ... his claims have been questioned by many traders .... some of those traders I have "unlimited' respect for

In all fairness to Bill (regardless of whether his methods seem good/sensible/rational etc etc) ......

Can I offer the suggestion, that Bill, over the next few weeks, place some live trades (paper trading is fine with me, as long as the calls are made "at the time" ... the essence of the method will be shown regardless) ...

.... so that a better understanding of his method can be assertained .....

If the trades (lets say a minimum sample of 20 trades) stack up, and Bill makes money ... perhaps we should walk away and leave Bill to his business, and accept that Bill may have found an edge .....

.... If the opposite happens and the trades are "noticeably" negative, maybe there is cause for further interogation ..... Whether that interrogation will prove anything useful is questionable from where I sit.

Anyway, just a thought ... personally I don't really mind one way or the other ..... I personally don't trade options cause they write the rules in Swahili

Barney, you have made your request in the most polite fashion and the silence is deafening. The irony being that in various different ways Bill has been asked the same question fror the last 2 years and has only posted up one trade which occured in 2009. He will tell you he has nothing to prove and more than likely insult you to for asking!!!

 

[mazzatelli]

... I was after some indication of the performance of the system (MA) but you've already said you don't test systems beyond paper trading.

No, it's virtually impossible to back test live options day trading. Experience is gained via real live paper trading. I haven't changed my MAs for over 4 years. They have stood the test of time. I've never bothered calculating win%, loss% or peak to trough drawdown. never needed to. I only do what works and has worked for me over the years. Some play with stats while others just get down to trading. I'm the latter. I've got a life.

lol, now you're scraping and twisting my words. That's not what I said at all. Read before you speak. You're embarrassing yourself.

More sidestepping bs. You've no idea how your system performs and p..a..lease; a moving avg system??

If you look at the first page of the thread our friend Bill claims $2,000-5,000 profit per week from a $20,000 starting balance.

Who cares when he has windfall days from a trading operation yielding $85,000! pg 10 of following article
http://thegiveawaycenter.com/gifts/2xmethod/2X_Method_by_Bill_Stacy_GA.pdf

 

[wayneL]

Who cares when he has windfall days from a trading operation yielding $85,000! pg 10 of following article
http://thegiveawaycenter.com/gifts/2xmethod/2X_Method_by_Bill_Stacy_GA.pdf

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