Coronavirus vaccine news

[barney]

All I'm doing is showing the numbers listed from the CDC USA data. Its not my data.

If you guys choose to take your data analysis from an exponentially smaller dataset (ie Australian data), which I agree looks better, fine.

But statistics are generally more reliable when ALL the data is collated. (ps Have a look at the Yellow Card data from the UK)

I actually hope you guys are right and I turn out to be 100% on the wrong track. I certainly don't want people getting sick from any vaccine.

Time will be the judge I guess.

 

[Belli]

Publicly available data set from the CDC. First column "outcome", fifth column "Vaccine product."

Rates of COVID-19 Cases or Deaths by Age Group and Vaccination Status | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

Don't jump to the conclusion it reports a vaccine was the cause of death.

 

[rederob]

All I'm doing is showing the numbers listed from the CDC USA data. Its not my data.

Seriously @barney?
I have presented data with causality and you have not. If you don't understand the difference then your interpretation is deficient.

If you guys choose to take your data analysis from an exponentially smaller dataset (ie Australian data), which I agree looks better, fine.

Australian data is based on tens of millions of records and goes directly to causality, whereas your data does not. If you believe that tens of millions of records is inadequate then you need to revisit your data analysis skills.

Time will be the judge I guess.

No, the data is already clear and unequivocal. The fact there are no deaths attributable to Pfizer vaccinations should tell you something!
You are doing your best to avoid the bleeding obvious by not focusing on key metrics.

 

[Belli]

If you guys choose to take your data analysis from an exponentially smaller dataset (ie Australian data), which I agree looks better, fine.

In the light of this:

"We continue to work with international regulators on this safety signal (referring to Comirnaty)"

We are closely monitoring the rates of myocarditis for all age groups and sex. While there are some fluctuations from week to week, especially in subgroups with small numbers of reports, rates of reporting of myocarditis in Australia are consistent with rates reported internationally."

the Australian data does not "look" better as claimed.

Above from TGA Covid-19 Weekly Safety report. The link to it has already been posted if people wish to read it.

The data is consistent with other international data. If it weren't and the indications were Comirnaty was not an appropriate vaccination everyone from The Garven to The Burnett would fronting up to hammer on TGA's door out at Symonston demanding it be withdrawn.

 

[barney]

I have presented data with causality and you have not. If you don't understand the difference then your interpretation is deficient.

The fact there are no deaths attributable to Pfizer vaccinations

@rederob Thanks for the reply and I take your comments on board.

I'm neither a Scientist nor a Data analyst, so I totally accept I may be deficient in my interpretation of data. I do try to be honest with regard to whatever I post however and have no false agenda.

In saying that, I accept that I may be better served by simply posting an article or a video and ask for other's interpretation prior to discussion.


Therefore, rather than me making potentially incorrect statements about Pfizer stating Zero deaths have been caused by their vaccine,


Can I ask, If someone disagreed or thought they could disprove that same statement from Pfizer, how would/could they prove causation with regard to death post receiving a vaccine? (genuine question/questions following.)


As a lay person, I would suspect that time elapsed to death post vaccine would be a possible "red flag" to follow up on? (24-48 hours?)

To prove or disprove from that point in time, would we likely/in fact require an autopsy??


Hypothetically, if an autopsy is not performed, does that mean that said death/deaths can immediately be rejected as vaccine related because causation cannot actually be proven?

In the same vein, how can we prove/disprove causation with regard to serious adverse reactions? Is it actually even possible?

Cheers.

 

[Belli]

To prove or disprove from that point in time, would we likely/in fact require an autopsy??

This may be of interest to you. While it is from NSW Health, it is similar to other jurisdictions.

Human tissue - Frequently asked questions on post-mortem (or autopsy) examinations in NSW

Answers to frequently asked questions on post mortem (autopsy) and non-coronial post mortem.

www.health.nsw.gov.au

 

[rederob]

As a lay person, I would suspect that time elapsed to death post vaccine would be a possible "red flag" to follow up on? (24-48 hours?)

There is no difference between a day and a fortnight if the vaccine didn't trigger a medical event. The "red flags" you refer to are measurable events via medical diagnosis and @Belli tabled these for pericarditis and myocarditis in an earlier post.

To prove or disprove from that point in time, would we likely/in fact require an autopsy??

Not as a matter of course, as serious medical events are diagnosed and reported.
Autopsies would occur if a coroner determined it necessary or if a party requested it.
I was not able to find evidence of deaths in Australia for Pfizer, so autopsies would not be performed. The AZ deaths which were attributable to vaccination were from severe reactions that were closely followed by the TGA and picked up by the media. As we know, the widespread reporting of adverse events relating to AZ vaccinations also contributed to vaccine hesitancy in the early days.

Hypothetically, if an autopsy is not performed, does that mean that said death/deaths can immediately be rejected as vaccine related because causation cannot actually be proven?

Unless an autopsy was deemed necessary the death would be recorded in the usual way and attributions made. Are you thinking these data are being hidden?

In the same vein, how can we prove/disprove causation with regard to serious adverse reactions? Is it actually even possible?

Health professional must report and manage adverse events. These are followed through to a reported outcome.
It's up to you to believe or otherwise what doctors and the TGA report.
Similarly you can choose not to believe data relating to covid deaths and long-term illness.

 

[Belli]

Remiss of me but I should have added postmortems are not always as portrayed in many TV shows. The results of toxicological analysis, most often on blood, can be used. ICD coding is used for classification of cause of death. I understand the 10th edition has been upgraded recently.

 

[wayneL]

More illumination:

 

[barney]

@rederob and @Belli

Thanks for the above replies. I confess I am still having trouble coming to terms with so many reported "post vaccine" deaths being reported as "non vaccine" related based on the opinion of the CDC which is based on whether Doctors deem it necessary to classify it that way etc etc.

I accept I am biased against the CDC and some other US Gov organizations who I believe may have an agenda to not admit the correct numbers. If that projects me as a conspiracy theorist at this point, I have to take that on the chin. Leave it with me for the time being

 

[rederob]

I accept I am biased against the CDC and some other US Gov organizations who I believe may have an agenda to not admit the correct numbers. If that projects me as a conspiracy theorist at this point, I have to take that on the chin. Leave it with me for the time being

You could take the easy path and trust Australia's system.
It might not be perfect, but there aren't as many geese flying around with conspiracy theories relating to our data.

 

[wayneL]

@rederob and @Belli

Thanks for the above replies. I confess I am still having trouble coming to terms with so many reported "post vaccine" deaths being reported as "non vaccine" related based on the opinion of the CDC which is based on whether Doctors deem it necessary to classify it that way etc etc.

I accept I am biased against the CDC and some other US Gov organizations who I believe may have an agenda to not admit the correct numbers. If that projects me as a conspiracy theorist at this point, I have to take that on the chin. Leave it with me for the time being

I see so many parallels with the hendra vaccine for horses. Ironically it is a vaccine that requires two jabs and originally six-monthly boosters... Now yearly.

The parallels I see is in the reluctance of veterinarians to report vaccine injuries. I have had clients whose horses had massive systemic reactions 72 hours post injection, yet veterinarians refusing to report as a vaccine reaction.

Likewise we farriers see the after effects of the vaccine, in the horses hooves in the shape of various grades of laminitis. Results can be temporary lameness, right up to catastrophic life ending and excruciating injury.

Yes in some instances correlation does not equal causation, but in about 75% of laminitis cases that I was dealing with in Queensland I was correctly predicting the timing of the most recent hendra virus needle.

Yet there is no acknowledgement from the veterinary community of this.

interestingly Zoetis, the manufacturer of the vaccine, was a subsidiary of Pfizer and has been the subject of a class action which was settled out of court.

.... And there is lots more to this story, which would take hours.

 

[wayneL]

The current clown world for those with short memories:

 

[bellenuit]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I am appending it here.

The general consensus is that cloth masks just don't cut it with Omicron and the favoured mask is the N95 standard. But every time I search Google for "best N95 mask Australia" I get overwhelmed with stuff that just makes me more confused than ever.

Has anyone researched this and is able to offer one or two brands that they would recommend, preferably from national retailers or trustworthy online sites?

 

[wayneL]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I am appending it here.

The general consensus is that cloth masks just don't cut it with Omicron and the favoured mask is the N95 standard. But every time I search Google for "best N95 mask Australia" I get overwhelmed with stuff that just makes me more confused than ever.

Has anyone researched this and is able to offer one or two brands that they would recommend, preferably from national retailers or trustworthy online sites?

Ditto.

If I must be forced into wearing a mask, swearing and bitching about it, it might as well be a worthwhile exercise.

i.e. must have an efficacy of greater than 0%

Bonus points if it has some sort of anti-authoritarian slogan printed on it

 

[Belli]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I am appending it here.

The general consensus is that cloth masks just don't cut it with Omicron and the favoured mask is the N95 standard. But every time I search Google for "best N95 mask Australia" I get overwhelmed with stuff that just makes me more confused than ever.

Has anyone researched this and is able to offer one or two brands that they would recommend, preferably from national retailers or trustworthy online sites?

@rederob has previously mentioned this site:

AMD P2 Respirator Australian Made 4-Layer Nano-Tech Face Mask - Earloops

Shop AMD P2 Mask – Effectively filters 99.66% of airborne particles & made with advanced nano-fibre technology for superior protection & comfortable wear.

www.aussiepharmadirect.com.au

There is also this, which if you buy three boxes or more, become slightly less expensive (5% discount.)

FFP2 / P2 Respirator Face Mask | 100% Australian Made | Official Australian Stockist

www.greenorganics.com.au

 

[IFocus]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I am appending it here.

The general consensus is that cloth masks just don't cut it with Omicron and the favoured mask is the N95 standard. But every time I search Google for "best N95 mask Australia" I get overwhelmed with stuff that just makes me more confused than ever.

Has anyone researched this and is able to offer one or two brands that they would recommend, preferably from national retailers or trustworthy online sites?

Go with the one Belli / Rob posted, P2 are slightly better just make the mask fit well follow hygiene instructions when removing.

 

[moXJO]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I am appending it here.

The general consensus is that cloth masks just don't cut it with Omicron and the favoured mask is the N95 standard. But every time I search Google for "best N95 mask Australia" I get overwhelmed with stuff that just makes me more confused than ever.

Has anyone researched this and is able to offer one or two brands that they would recommend, preferably from national retailers or trustworthy online sites?

Comfort look for that.

Disposable is best if you don't want to get infected from your mask.

Fit it properly.

Remove it properly.

Disposal and hand sanitise.

Don't touch your face.

 

[Tisme]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I am appending it here.

The general consensus is that cloth masks just don't cut it with Omicron and the favoured mask is the N95 standard. But every time I search Google for "best N95 mask Australia" I get overwhelmed with stuff that just makes me more confused than ever.

Has anyone researched this and is able to offer one or two brands that they would recommend, preferably from national retailers or trustworthy online sites?

My workforce has been issued with the 3M brand for over ten years now. They are the ducksnuts.

 

[bellenuit]

Thanks all. I've placed an order for 50 of Aussie Pharma's AMD P2 Respirator Nano-tech Mask, 4-layer (T4)-Ear loops.